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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:12 pm 
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mm23292 wrote:
People behave in different ways, for different reasons. And there are many forms of favouritism and prejudice in schools, just as there are in the workplace or any where in life. But we can’t beat every nail with the same hammer. If the two children were of same colour, no racial inferences would have been drawn. Or perhaps my experiences as a child, were due to the extent of my ‘blondeness’ in a class of blacks & browns??
It really does get tiresome when this is metred out in situations where there happens to be diversity of colour. People commenting on online discussions regarding Meghan Markle and her life prior to now, have been branded racist. Yet previous royal brides have endured similar scrutiny and press intrusion. It’s a sad world where opinions can’t be aired, or behaviours can’t be modified, without falling foul of something never considered or intended.
Yes this teacher appeared to behave inappropriately in that situation, but to infer that this was motivated by racial prejudice, simply because the girl happened to have a darker skin tone than the boy, is ludicrous.


this level of naiveté is actually dangerous.


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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:13 pm 
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Surferfish wrote:
daddyof3 wrote:
To actually believe that racism stops outside the school gate is ludicrous.

Are you saying that teachers/ school staff can't be racist? Now this is ludicrous.


I don't think anyone is saying that.

I think what some people are saying (and I kind of agree) is that it is wrong to infer that the teacher was racist simply from watching that episode.

I agree that Chichi was treated unfairly on that occasion, but its possible that could have been due to her having gained a reputation for being difficult, argumentative and disrespectful due to evidence of HER OWN PERSONAL PREVIOUS BEHAVIOUR (which as viewers we haven't witnessed) rather than due to unfair racist stereotypes of black people as a whole.


Thank you surfer fish... my point exactly. We can’t be expected to excuse unacceptable or sub standard behaviours, be it in the workplace or at school, simply because it might be construed as prejudice based on colour. It is completely irrelevant.


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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:17 pm 
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mm23292 wrote:
Surferfish wrote:
daddyof3 wrote:
To actually believe that racism stops outside the school gate is ludicrous.

Are you saying that teachers/ school staff can't be racist? Now this is ludicrous.


I don't think anyone is saying that.

I think what some people are saying (and I kind of agree) is that it is wrong to infer that the teacher was racist simply from watching that episode.

I agree that Chichi was treated unfairly on that occasion, but its possible that could have been due to her having gained a reputation for being difficult, argumentative and disrespectful due to evidence of HER OWN PERSONAL PREVIOUS BEHAVIOUR (which as viewers we haven't witnessed) rather than due to unfair racist stereotypes of black people as a whole.


Thank you surfer fish... my point exactly. We can’t be expected to excuse unacceptable or sub standard behaviours, be it in the workplace or at school, simply because it might be construed as prejudice based on colour. It is completely irrelevant.



No one is asking you to excuse any behavior. But then if i had the luxury of being the standard or the norm, I'd probably live my life thinking my views were required to validate everyone elses and that we were all the same. This is what implicit bias looks like.


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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:18 pm 
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Guest55 wrote:
Remember this programme is being made to be controversial; treat it as you would a soap opera.


fair point


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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:23 pm 
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HamptonDad wrote:
this level of naiveté is actually dangerous.


Dangerous?? :? I would say that drawing racial inferences can be dangerous. And highly inflammatory. Nobody knows why this teacher behaved this way...we can only base assumptions on what we saw. And up to that point, we saw a teacher becoming exasperated, by a pupil who was behaving below par... Beyond that, we know nothing!


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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:28 pm 
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HamptonDad wrote:
mm23292 wrote:
People behave in different ways, for different reasons. And there are many forms of favouritism and prejudice in schools, just as there are in the workplace or any where in life. But we can’t beat every nail with the same hammer. If the two children were of same colour, no racial inferences would have been drawn. Or perhaps my experiences as a child, were due to the extent of my ‘blondeness’ in a class of blacks & browns??
It really does get tiresome when this is metred out in situations where there happens to be diversity of colour. People commenting on online discussions regarding Meghan Markle and her life prior to now, have been branded racist. Yet previous royal brides have endured similar scrutiny and press intrusion. It’s a sad world where opinions can’t be aired, or behaviours can’t be modified, without falling foul of something never considered or intended.
Yes this teacher appeared to behave inappropriately in that situation, but to infer that this was motivated by racial prejudice, simply because the girl happened to have a darker skin tone than the boy, is ludicrous.


this level of naiveté is actually dangerous.


You hit the nail on the head.


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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:25 pm 
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Location: Surrey
Let us agree that the teacher’s behaviour was outrageously inappropriate, whatever the background, particularly when the girl was in discussion with the other teacher. She should not butted in.


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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:43 pm 
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HamptonDad wrote:
No one is asking you to excuse any behavior. But then if i had the luxury of being the standard or the norm, I'd probably live my life thinking my views were required to validate everyone elses and that we were all the same. This is what implicit bias looks like.
I find that a very interesting and thought-provoking remark HD. I take it you are familiar with Edward Said's work on orientalism? Definitely relevant I think.

I didn't see the programme as I have said so can't opine, but I concur with those who caution about making any meaningful deductions from a piece of prime-time entertainment dressed up as serious social commentary.


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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:53 pm 
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tiffinboys wrote:
Let us agree that the teacher’s behaviour was outrageously inappropriate, whatever the background, particularly when the girl was in discussion with the other teacher. She should not butted in.


I think we all agree. its obvious that we took away different things from what we saw. but you are right


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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:03 pm 
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Amber wrote:
HamptonDad wrote:
No one is asking you to excuse any behavior. But then if i had the luxury of being the standard or the norm, I'd probably live my life thinking my views were required to validate everyone elses and that we were all the same. This is what implicit bias looks like.
I find that a very interesting and thought-provoking remark HD. I take it you are familiar with Edward Said's work on orientalism? Definitely relevant I think.

I didn't see the programme as I have said so can't opine, but I concur with those who caution about making any meaningful deductions from a piece of prime-time entertainment dressed up as serious social commentary.


I am familiar with Edward Said's work on orientalism and i also agree about exercising caution with the deductions we make from the show. The point i am however making above is that my day to day experience means that some parts of the show resonate with me more than others. Just because this isn't the case with everyone doesn't make my take-away any more or less valid


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