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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:04 pm 
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food4thought wrote:
I watched some of this, and what was really strange to me was that one of the parents, didnt allow her daughter to get enough sleep, even on the night before the exam. I thought it is common sense that the kid needs a good night's rest during these exams... not waking up to her baby sibling every night. I suspect this programme didnt tell the whole story..


I didn't think the mum in question had much choice in the matter.... I felt sorry for that girl as there was a lot of pressure on her in difficult circumstances and the mum didn't even give her a hug when she got her results ☹

What struck me was the children shown who had been heavily tutored did not get selected, whereas the girl with the laid back mum and several siblings did...


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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:27 am 
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The cynic in me is wondering whether they took footage of other children but only showed the ones they wanted us to see.

For example, there was that blonde boy who qualified but they didn’t say much about him. Was he tutored too?

The point they were trying to make is that 1 in 4 children qualify but the girl that didn’t have a tutor is the one out of 4 that got through. So maybe all the other tutored children got through and the other untutored ones didn’t. The girl who qualified may not have had a tutor but she was still preparing for the exam and had the same books as the girl who had a tutor.


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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:01 am 
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I know many families who have prepped extensively at home, I don’t think that really matters, it’s all still preparation towards the test. Some families will be able to cultivate the right environment for this, more easily than others. One of my neighbours has a child who was religiously required to prep 2 hours per day in the months before. No questions asked, she just got on with it. Very quiet & studious child, so it was relatively easy to enforce. There is no way I would get that level of dedicated input from either of mine! :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:56 am 
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mm23292 wrote:
I know many families who have prepped extensively at home, I don’t think that really matters, it’s all still preparation towards the test. Some families will be able to cultivate the right environment for this, more easily than others. One of my neighbours has a child who was religiously required to prep 2 hours per day in the months before. No questions asked, she just got on with it. Very quiet & studious child, so it was relatively easy to enforce. There is no way I would get that level of dedicated input from either of mine! :roll:



This is an interesting point. I know a child who was expected to work very hard every day, 2-3 hours at a time by very competitive and pushy parents. The child got their reward but I wondered at what cost. The child was not well socialised and had trouble with their peers to the point that they were very unpopular in school with peers and adults alike.
It wasn't jealousy as others passed and are very popular.


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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:05 pm 
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RedDevil66 wrote:
This is an interesting point. I know a child who was expected to work very hard every day, 2-3 hours at a time by very competitive and pushy parents. The child got their reward but I wondered at what cost. The child was not well socialised and had trouble with their peers to the point that they were very unpopular in school with peers and adults alike.

I suspect it was more a case of the parents getting their reward and as you say, the child's well-being being secondary. There's a lot of vicarious parenting going on out there. I've come across plenty of parents who consider the school destination of their child to be a reflection of their social standing. You see lots of it on these forums, with people claiming a deep and long-standing yearning to send their child to a particular school and when questioned about what it is that makes that school so essential, it becomes clear that they've never visited it or even driven past it. Results, results, results. And a shiny website - "Ooh, it has a Hawking quote on it! And test tubes!"


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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:38 pm 
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anotherdad wrote:
RedDevil66 wrote:
This is an interesting point. I know a child who was expected to work very hard every day, 2-3 hours at a time by very competitive and pushy parents. The child got their reward but I wondered at what cost. The child was not well socialised and had trouble with their peers to the point that they were very unpopular in school with peers and adults alike.

I suspect it was more a case of the parents getting their reward and as you say, the child's well-being being secondary. There's a lot of vicarious parenting going on out there. I've come across plenty of parents who consider the school destination of their child to be a reflection of their social standing. You see lots of it on these forums, with people claiming a deep and long-standing yearning to send their child to a particular school and when questioned about what it is that makes that school so essential, it becomes clear that they've never visited it or even driven past it. Results, results, results. And a shiny website - "Ooh, it has a Hawking quote on it! And test tubes!"


I did hear of an inadvertently hilarious case of a pupil who had an interview at a prestigious Independent in Essex and when asked why he wanted to go there he answered, " Because my mum wants me too but I want to go where my friends are!"
Needless to say the pushy mum was very annoyed.

The child didn't get his place


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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:44 pm 
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RedDevil66 wrote:
I did hear of an inadvertently hilarious case of a pupil who had an interview at a prestigious Independent in Essex and when asked why he wanted to go there he answered, " Because my mum wants me too but I want to go where my friends are!"
Needless to say the pushy mum was very annoyed.

The child didn't get his place

He showed enough independence to tell the independent school what he really thought! I bet he goes far.


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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:34 pm 
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ale21279 wrote:
food4thought wrote:
I watched some of this, and what was really strange to me was that one of the parents, didnt allow her daughter to get enough sleep, even on the night before the exam. I thought it is common sense that the kid needs a good night's rest during these exams... not waking up to her baby sibling every night. I suspect this programme didnt tell the whole story..


I didn't think the mum in question had much choice in the matter....


She spent 1000s on tutoring but couldn't find £60 for a night in Travelodge? I find it hard to believe.
Lots of gaps in BBC's plot and I suspect parts that don't fit into left wing anti-grammar narrative were simply omitted.

With all that said, I agree with most posters here, that putting so much pressure on the children is unhealthy. We haven't decided if we go for it yet, as out son is only in Y3. But if we do, for sure there won't be fail/pass rhetoric and any preparation will be as relaxed as possible and home based. We are lucky to live in an area with several outstanding comps and the GS is 5 minutes walk away, so I am conscious that our case isn't representative and parents living in fully selective areas are under a lot of pressure.

I believe there is a case for having GSs, but selection shouldn't be based on a single "do and die" test. Rather there should be several controlled assessments throughout the primary school or possibly last years of it. No set dates, no nerve wrecking build ups, no public results, just children quietly given test papers during math/English lessons, results weighted/added up and GS eligibility given to parents before the secondary school applications are open.


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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:03 pm 
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dadadad wrote:
ale21279 wrote:
food4thought wrote:
I watched some of this, and what was really strange to me was that one of the parents, didnt allow her daughter to get enough sleep, even on the night before the exam. I thought it is common sense that the kid needs a good night's rest during these exams... not waking up to her baby sibling every night. I suspect this programme didnt tell the whole story..


I didn't think the mum in question had much choice in the matter....


She spent 1000s on tutoring but couldn't find £60 for a night in Travelodge? I find it hard to believe.
Lots of gaps in BBC's plot and I suspect parts that don't fit into left wing anti-grammar narrative were simply omitted.

With all that said, I agree with most posters here, that putting so much pressure on the children is unhealthy. We haven't decided if we go for it yet, as out son is only in Y3. But if we do, for sure there won't be fail/pass rhetoric and any preparation will be as relaxed as possible and home based. We are lucky to live in an area with several outstanding comps and the GS is 5 minutes walk away, so I am conscious that our case isn't representative and parents living in fully selective areas are under a lot of pressure.

I believe there is a case for having GSs, but selection shouldn't be based on a single "do and die" test. Rather there should be several controlled assessments throughout the primary school or possibly last years of it. No set dates, no nerve wrecking build ups, no public results, just children quietly given test papers during math/English lessons, results weighted/added up and GS eligibility given to parents before the secondary school applications are open.

In an ideal world, this would be great. However, these tests are standardised which would mean that everyone taking the tests would have to take them in the same way they are taken these days. Over 5,000 children take the Bexley test for under 700 places. It would be very costly and difficult to manage all those children taking the series of tests and have them externally marked and standardised.

I felt for Juanita and her family situation. The other children were also tutored, but this was at home. I know someone who was “not tutored at all” and went to a super selective independent school. His parents, however were teachers and read the “right” books, had a very rich vocabulary and generally helped their children with whatever was needed. They also advocated against tutoring with the mantra that the child would then struggle. Juanita’s mum worked long hours and couldn’t help her child at the time she got home.

Salsa


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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:47 pm 
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salsa wrote:
It would be very costly and difficult to manage all those children taking the series of tests and have them externally marked and standardised.


What I meant is, every LEA should have it's own grammar school(s) serving local children, so the controlled assessments are to decide who goes where locally. No tourism and superselective nonsense. No secondary moderns either, well funded comprehensive academies with strong leadership.


Last edited by dadadad on Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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