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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:16 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:00 pm
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Location: Surrey
As long as there are tutors and parents willing to pay, no tests can be tutor free. Only tests could be continually improved and changed frequently or allow state primaries to prepare all of its students to improve level playing.


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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:19 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:01 pm
Posts: 217
Agrer with mm23292 and anotherdad

We see the blind obsession here on this forum - "my child must get into X at all costs, despite needing 2 tutors since year 3 and facing an hour's journey each way at aged 11". Every year people put their children in for exams they have no chance of succeeding in or travelling to.. We all know some of these parents.

The obsessive and righteous antics here about the Latymer exam for inner/outer catchment last year put me off this website a bit. Yes the school screwed up but how many of these parents actually took the places they fought so hard for? I think we would all prefer the school to focus on the current pupils without accommodating applicants who will never join.

So I will leave it to Philip Larkin: "They f&#@ you up, your mum and dad".


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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:17 am 
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Location: Surrey
May I suggest not to start Latymer on this thread? School illegally broke its own admissions arrangements and it was right to fight such blatant abuse.


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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:19 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:59 pm
Posts: 6504
As long as there are grammar schools admitting via a selective test, pressure on children will only increase. By removing them from the equation and returning to local schools for all, children can regain their childhood and we can decrease the mental health timebomb that is currently ticking away.


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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:35 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2014 4:04 pm
Posts: 1920
mm23292 wrote:
I could not agree more anotherdad. And it saddens me how far this parental frenzy extends. We know of a child who at aged 8, felt the need to contact Childline, as she was too tired and stressed with her long days and lengthy after school tutoring sessions. Yet this is sadly becoming more and more common.
Yes the selection process strives to be tutor proof, as well it should. Our children should be taking this test, with minimal preparation, so as not to artificially inflate their ‘natural’ ability profile. And yet what happens? Schools like ours, run tests like CATs and other standardised assessment observations, in order to guide parents on their children’s suitability for grammar, and our HT has tried very hard to drive this message home. Yet regardless of what parents seem to be told, they remain **** bent on believing that extra tuition will pull them up to where they need to be! Some of these parents simply do not seem to understand the consequences of this. One parent I know, on being told that 2 years worth of standardised scores that were pointing towards a broadly average profile...105 to 110, seemed disgusted at the lack of initiative the school had shown. It was their job to improve this, and twice weekly kumon sessions since the age of 5, and one to one 11 plus tuition from the start of year 4, is all essential for her child, because the school is not doing its job! It really does beggar belief.

I spent a long time trying to convince a parent who had two children, one of whom was slightly above average, the other slightly below but both well within normal limits, that it was not the "school's job" to get "every child above average".
I failed. Despite the fact that I ended up admitting to an A level in statistics, she refused pointblank to accept that every child who didn't have a specific learning need couldn't be above average.
(She moved them to an independent school where the child of slightly weaker ability did significantly less well than her previously similar peers over subsequent years).


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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:38 am 
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Location: Surrey
As if there would be no pressure on children to perform better in SATs and GCSEs and to come on top. Closure of grammars would make no difference, only bright children would suffer and private schools would benefit.


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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:45 am 
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loobylou wrote:
I spent a long time trying to convince a parent who had two children, one of whom was slightly above average, the other slightly below but both well within normal limits, that it was not the "school's job" to get "every child above average".
I failed. Despite the fact that I ended up admitting to an A level in statistics, she refused pointblank to accept that every child who didn't have a specific learning need couldn't be above average.
(She moved them to an independent school where the child of slightly weaker ability did significantly less well than her previously similar peers over subsequent years).


Very sad that parents don't listen to common sense, but it does happen every day...(evidenced on here, frequently!)


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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:28 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:00 pm
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Location: Surrey
Those who oppose grammars day and night don’t listen, then why would others? :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:13 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:33 pm
Posts: 1763
CestMoi wrote:
Agrer with mm23292 and anotherdad

We see the blind obsession here on this forum - "my child must get into X at all costs, despite needing 2 tutors since year 3 and facing an hour's journey each way at aged 11". Every year people put their children in for exams they have no chance of succeeding in or travelling to.. We all know some of these parents.

The obsessive and righteous antics here about the Latymer exam for inner/outer catchment last year put me off this website a bit. Yes the school screwed up but how many of these parents actually took the places they fought so hard for? I think we would all prefer the school to focus on the current pupils without accommodating applicants who will never join.

So I will leave it to Philip Larkin: "They f&#@ you up, your mum and dad".

The Latymer situation passed me by completely, I don't tend to look deeply at what's going on in other parts of the country. I've just spent an interesting half hour flicking through some of the 67(!) pages of it. What a mess. Whilst the school clearly took some strange decisions and had to backtrack, I can see why they tried to do something different to tackle tourism and the obsessive antics of some parents.

Some of these schools are attracting behaviours similar to those seen when there's a discounted TV in Asda on Black Friday - something that makes a good number of hitherto reasonable people behave like crazed loons desperate not to miss out and prepared to trample over others to get there.


Last edited by anotherdad on Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:20 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2016 12:28 am
Posts: 92
I watched some of this, and what was really strange to me was that one of the parents, didnt allow her daughter to get enough sleep, even on the night before the exam. I thought it is common sense that the kid needs a good night's rest during these exams... not waking up to her baby sibling every night. I suspect this programme didnt tell the whole story..


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