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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:00 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:59 am
Posts: 8057
Seriously, I have issues with this fly on the wall thing. Firstly, and entirely irrelevant to the discussion, flies have compound eyes so their view of a classroom of children, say, would look very different from if there were a person on a wall. (I see this could make things difficult logistically, but I guess training flies to use film cameras is not without its challenges). This is why flies can see you coming with the swatter even if you think you are creeping up unseen. If you listen carefully you can hear them let out a little laugh as they shoot off in the other direction just before you hit the wall with your newspaper.

Secondly, the online dictionary says that this is a film-making technique whereby events are recorded realistically with minimum interference rather than acted out under direction. I would contest that any documentary of the nature being discussed here is most unlikely to have been made under such circumstances. Still, more reliable than academic nonsense, clearly.


Funny how other countries manage without segregation, isn't it? How they must envy our international standing, our statesmanlike conduct in global arenas, our exemplary behaviour abroad, our clear superiority in matters scientific, social and humanitarian. Perhaps grammar schools will catch on everywhere and civilise the entire world. We can but hope.


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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:07 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:00 pm
Posts: 7731
Location: Surrey
From many posts here, it seems that Bucks, Gloucester etc area seems to be inundated with grammars and creating 'huge' problems for non-selective schools. At least half of these should be relocated to areas with no grammars and reduce problems in areas like Bucks. Bucks catchment policy should be changed or countered by transporting huge numbers of exam tourists. So that more of their able children are diverted to non-selective schools. :wink:

In our area, less than 5% kids go to grammars. The non-selective schools have a broad range of ability students. So it must be fine .......... on papers.


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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:16 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2016 8:14 am
Posts: 247
tiffinboys wrote:
In our area, less than 5% kids go to grammars.


So you don't live in Kent?


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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:21 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 3:49 pm
Posts: 346
I am not pro or anti anything. I live in Bucks and like mm23292 just trying to make the best of what we have.

I’ve been following the series but I don’t understand the point the documentary is trying to make. If it is trying to say that having a grammar school system is bad for everyone involved then it should show us a school in a non-grammar area for comparison. A school which has a range on children because no one was creamed off the top.


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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:51 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:00 pm
Posts: 7731
Location: Surrey
loopylala wrote:
tiffinboys wrote:
In our area, less than 5% kids go to grammars.


So you don't live in Kent?


No


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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:18 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:21 pm
Posts: 16131
tiffinboys wrote:
I am pro-grammars, not pro-secondary modern. All schools should be properly resourced to meet the needs of children in those schools.

One is the consequence of the other - there is no point in debating with someone who does not realise this.

I thought the programme was a total joke and clearly just made for 'entertainment' - both schools were caricatures and it made me angry.


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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:25 pm 
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loopylala wrote:
So you don't live in Kent?
Surrey, according to TB's profile. Where headteachers can't wait to get going with more grammar schools:
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... hools-plan

Guest55 wrote:
One is the consequence of the other - there is no point in debating with someone who does not realise this.
Or refuses to acknowledge it perhaps? Makes for a tidier debate if you consistently refuse to acknowledge your opponent's points.
Guest55 wrote:
both schools were caricatures and it made me angry.
Makes for good sport, easy telly, polarises opinion, is reductive in the sense that it kills any nuanced debate, but leaves [most of] the audience with a feeling that they have understood an important truth.


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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:06 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2016 10:02 am
Posts: 218
Guest55 wrote:
both schools were caricatures and it made me angry.


Amber wrote:
Makes for good sport, easy telly, polarises opinion, is reductive in the sense that it kills any nuanced debate, but leaves [most of] the audience with a feeling that they have understood an important truth.


Totally agree, showing a system (any system) working well is not great for the viewing figures.


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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:26 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:00 pm
Posts: 7731
Location: Surrey
Amber wrote:
loopylala wrote:
So you don't live in Kent?
Surrey, according to TB's profile. Where headteachers can't wait to get going with more grammar schools:
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... hools-plan


Surrey, but not Surrey LA area.

The Surrey Heads seems to be worried about their schools' ranking if grammar comes to their area. They want more able students to stay in their school, even if coasting, as school results show better. Are they bothered if more able could perform even better?

Those not happy with grammars in their area can go for parental ballot and see if other parents agree with them.


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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:58 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2016 8:14 am
Posts: 247
tiffinboys wrote:
Those not happy with grammars in their area can go for parental ballot and see if other parents agree with them.


For some it will be much quicker and easier to just move to a comp. area with access to Grammars ;-)


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