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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:37 am 
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Location: Surrey
Episode 3: saw the recorded version late last night. Highlight key issues in non-selectives which even don't have to be in few selective areas in the country.


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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:35 am 
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I felt sorry for the girls at Erith who really wanted to do well but they didn’t do as well as they could have. Although it wasn’t clear whether they would have struggled if they’d gone to Townley. The girl from Townley who was struggling did well in the end but she seems to have low self confidence and I felt bad for her because her mum was telling her to do maths a-level when she was clearly finding GCSE maths hard.


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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:23 am 
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Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 6:53 pm
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RedDevil66 wrote:
food4thought wrote:
in episode 2, i felt sorry for the girl in the non-grammar school who was expelled. she was a high achiever but was misunderstood i think. for example, she was having a conversation with a year head,alas not productive. but then another teacher barged in and told her off and sent her home. i think the second teacher had the attitude problem, not her. then she was threatened to be expelled again... there was a hidden agenda here i think. the student was already traumatised by missing 2 weeks of schooling! i remember teachers like these when i was at school.


Watching the programme with other adult members of my family;wife and mother. We all couldn't help having the same feeling that there was an element of racial stereotyping going on there.
Why when the initial head was getting through to Chichi did the other teacher butt in so aggressively? It just appeared that she thought she 'had an attitude'. I found the whole incident rather disturbing.
We also had teachers like that at my grammar back in the day. In those days they were quite happy to pick on me and other BME boys,using all kinds of racial epithets...


So i wasn't the only one who noticed this then! if you watched last night's episode, you would have seen a different side to the very same staff member. She was very accommodating and helpful to the young guy who was a under performing and clearly not bothered by his education or the assistance that was being offered. The girl from episode 2 was no angel but the teacher clearly had a problem with her. It is very uncomfortable to point out racial bias but this was very obvious and hard to ignore.


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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:08 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 3:49 pm
Posts: 250
I did wonder whether that was because the girl was being rude to the staff but the boy wasn’t actually being agressive just non-caring.

In Episode 2 it was wrong for the teacher to come into the room and start shouting at Chichi when the other teacher was handling it fine.

But we don’t know what the background has been so it’s difficult to know just from watching clips.


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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:54 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:06 pm
Posts: 490
And of course editing plays an important part. The programme makers need to some conflict.


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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:53 am 
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Joined: Tue May 22, 2018 7:23 am
Posts: 18
HamptonDad wrote:
RedDevil66 wrote:
food4thought wrote:
in episode 2, i felt sorry for the girl in the non-grammar school who was expelled. she was a high achiever but was misunderstood i think. for example, she was having a conversation with a year head,alas not productive. but then another teacher barged in and told her off and sent her home. i think the second teacher had the attitude problem, not her. then she was threatened to be expelled again... there was a hidden agenda here i think. the student was already traumatised by missing 2 weeks of schooling! i remember teachers like these when i was at school.


Watching the programme with other adult members of my family;wife and mother. We all couldn't help having the same feeling that there was an element of racial stereotyping going on there.
Why when the initial head was getting through to Chichi did the other teacher butt in so aggressively? It just appeared that she thought she 'had an attitude'. I found the whole incident rather disturbing.
We also had teachers like that at my grammar back in the day. In those days they were quite happy to pick on me and other BME boys,using all kinds of racial epithets...

So i wasn't the only one who noticed this then! if you watched last night's episode, you would have seen a different side to the very same staff member. She was very accommodating and helpful to the young guy who was a under performing and clearly not bothered by his education or the assistance that was being offered. The girl from episode 2 was no angel but the teacher clearly had a problem with her. It is very uncomfortable to point out racial bias but this was very obvious and hard to ignore.


It's uncomfortable and as a person of colour myself, I try not to see such things in that light. Sure Chichi isn't the easiest of children but how many are at that age? But it was very tangible.
Sadly in my working life I've encountered such attitudes from bosses and management who display a totally different attitude when dealing with people from BME communities then try and portray them as, " having an attitude problem."


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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:54 am 
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Joined: Tue May 22, 2018 7:23 am
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Blue_Marigold wrote:
I did wonder whether that was because the girl was being rude to the staff but the boy wasn’t actually being agressive just non-caring.

In Episode 2 it was wrong for the teacher to come into the room and start shouting at Chichi when the other teacher was handling it fine.

But we don’t know what the background has been so it’s difficult to know just from watching clips.


Context doesn't excuse the approach of the staff member.


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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:43 pm 
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Posts: 107
RedDevil66 wrote:
Blue_Marigold wrote:
I did wonder whether that was because the girl was being rude to the staff but the boy wasn’t actually being agressive just non-caring.

In Episode 2 it was wrong for the teacher to come into the room and start shouting at Chichi when the other teacher was handling it fine.

But we don’t know what the background has been so it’s difficult to know just from watching clips.


Context doesn't excuse the approach of the staff member.


Absolutely agree - watched this with DD (11yo) and she said "why did the teacher say let's sit down and talk about this and then the other teacher come in and tell her off when she wasn't part of the conversation?" To then send her off site when she was acting up (fairly mildly in my opinion) as she was stressed about missing the revision session for a detention was unfair. The whole attitude to that poor girl was awful - background context was irrelevant to that situation. Haven't seen the latest episode so won't opine on whether it's unconscious (or conscious) bias due to stereotyping but I really felt that she needed a strong mentor / role model to help her move forward.


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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:26 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 3:49 pm
Posts: 250
I know. I did think it was unfair what the teacher did but sometimes these programs use clever editing to make things look completely different from what actually happened.


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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:08 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 6:53 pm
Posts: 21
Blue_Marigold wrote:
I know. I did think it was unfair what the teacher did but sometimes these programs use clever editing to make things look completely different from what actually happened.


Yes editing is a factor but we all saw what we saw. Anyone who has been at the receiving of such treatment will be used to people who will find any excuse to justify the behavior rather than admit the obvious. This time lets go with editing, shall we


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