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 Post subject: Re: World Cup 2018
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:50 am 
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Posts: 2101
kenyancowgirl wrote:
Of course we should expect it...in the same way we should have expected it of previous teams - and of those Premier League players who are "role models" for so many youngsters - but we didn't get it in the past - perhaps they are being praised for it because they actually WERE role models - they broke the mold that we have generally learned to accept....Change will not happen unless someone changes. They did - maybe give them a little credit for that?!


Some of us don't accept it and thus don't watch football anymore. As a child I absolutely loved it. But now I'm lucky enough to be involved in a traditional Martial Art where even in the competitive side (at world championship level) being a decent person is far more important than being a winner...
And we get paid nothing...


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 Post subject: Re: World Cup 2018
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:55 am 
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Posts: 5110
Good for you. But I think you missed my point - I am not a football fan either but i can appreciate that this team conducted themselves in a way that was fitting at international level - possibly better than everyone else? I think their yellow card tally had them in the running for the Fair Play award? If this continues perhaps people who left, like yourself, would come back to a love of the sport - perhaps not.

....I'll go back to my rugby pitch...


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 Post subject: Re: World Cup 2018
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:20 am 
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kenyancowgirl wrote:
.Change will not happen unless someone changes. They did - maybe give them a little credit for that?!

Fair enough. Credit for that.


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 Post subject: Re: World Cup 2018
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:30 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:19 pm
Posts: 7340
This team have definitely restored a little respect in the English football team, a squad to be proud of rather than embarrassed by.

I too will now go back to my rugby sideline but Well Done England.

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Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad !


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 Post subject: Re: World Cup 2018
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:59 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:06 pm
Posts: 507
Oh well, it was fun while it lasted. :(

Its been refreshing to follow a likeable young team with a charming manager and there have been some great moments. The highlight for me was finally overcoming the curse of the penalty shoot-out against Columbia.

In hindsight though I guess they lacked the ability and experience to make it all the way. This was accepted before the start of the tournament and is the reason the expectations and media hype were initially far less than they normally are.


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 Post subject: Re: World Cup 2018
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:57 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 11:39 pm
Posts: 2324
I’m not a footie fan either and have very little understanding of the game. I did however have a little chuckle this morning listening to Absolute Radio (80s) when they were discussing the Curse of Mick Jagger.


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 Post subject: Re: World Cup 2018
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:01 pm 
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KS10 wrote:
I’m not a footie fan either and have very little understanding of the game. I did however have a little chuckle this morning listening to Absolute Radio (80s) when they were discussing the Curse of Mick Jagger.


This must have gone viral... I've heard it on two other stations today also..


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 Post subject: Re: World Cup 2018
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:06 pm 
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Someone could make a lot of money turning it into a song.


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 Post subject: Re: World Cup 2018
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:38 am 
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I've really enjoyed this World Cup and for the first time in many years, I was pleased to see England do well. Through the last 20 years, when personalities and egos dominated the England squad, the self-entitlement of some of the players was obvious and the team ended up being somehow worse than the collective sum of its individual players, I was quite happy to watch their failures and humiliation every two years. I haven't enjoyed the way that the national team has been hijacked by a faction of fools who confuse sporting patriotism with nationalism, sing terrace chants about the war and who view football as a proxy for a war they would run a mile from in real life anyway. This time, had England won the World Cup, I was dreading the Faragistas somehow claiming it as a Brexit triumph. We all know it would have happened. I'm pleased that they performed well as a team, got a long way into the tournament thanks to a kind draw and have been relatively sporting and dignified with it. I'm particularly pleased for Gareth Southgate, who strikes me as an unusually decent football man. Thank goodness Allardyce screwed up and threw away the job.

Looking at their performance rationally, though, it isn't as heroic as some have made out. Assuming the best 32 teams in the world are at the tournament (aside from some quirks of qualifying, of course), I would have put England in the best 16 of those at the start of the tournament. Are they in the top four teams in the world? I don't think so. Top eight? Maybe, so a place in the quarter-finals is what I expected and they exceeded my expectations. Now look at their actual results:

Tunisia 1-2 England. Tunisia ranked 21st. England's two goals scored from set pieces.
England 6-1 Panama. Panama ranked 55th. Among England's goals were a set-piece goal, two penalties and a lucky deflection.
England 0-1 Belgium. England's first highly-ranked opposition (3rd), against whom they lost and failed to score.
Columbia 1-1 England. Strong opposition again (ranked 16th), England can only draw by scoring another penalty. They got through on the lottery of penalties.
Sweden 0-2 England. Sweden ranked 24th. Another goal from a set piece.
Croatia 2-1 England. Croatia ranked 20th. England's goal came from a set-piece.

Looking rationally at that, it shows how kindly the tournament unfolded for England and how, when up against stronger sides, England depended upon penalties, free kicks and corners. England only scored four goals from open play in the six matches, three of those against one of the weakest teams in the tournament. Set-pieces are of course part of the game but teams like Belgium and Croatia are stronger in open play and that told over the two games against them. So I'm afraid I don't see England's progress as an indication of things to come, but more as a result of a kind draw and a strength in set-pieces. Will those circumstances arise at a future World Cup? Probably not, so England have a long way to go if they are to match what they've achieved this time around. Time is on their side because they are a young squad, but Southgate is going to have to watch very carefully to ensure that some of this squad don't believe their own hype and turn into the new "golden generation" that have underperformed in the last 20 years.


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 Post subject: Re: World Cup 2018
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:16 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2011 1:25 pm
Posts: 2101
anotherdad wrote:
I've really enjoyed this World Cup and for the first time in many years, I was pleased to see England do well. Through the last 20 years, when personalities and egos dominated the England squad, the self-entitlement of some of the players was obvious and the team ended up being somehow worse than the collective sum of its individual players, I was quite happy to watch their failures and humiliation every two years. I haven't enjoyed the way that the national team has been hijacked by a faction of fools who confuse sporting patriotism with nationalism, sing terrace chants about the war and who view football as a proxy for a war they would run a mile from in real life anyway. This time, had England won the World Cup, I was dreading the Faragistas somehow claiming it as a Brexit triumph. We all know it would have happened. I'm pleased that they performed well as a team, got a long way into the tournament thanks to a kind draw and have been relatively sporting and dignified with it. I'm particularly pleased for Gareth Southgate, who strikes me as an unusually decent football man. Thank goodness Allardyce screwed up and threw away the job.

Looking at their performance rationally, though, it isn't as heroic as some have made out. Assuming the best 32 teams in the world are at the tournament (aside from some quirks of qualifying, of course), I would have put England in the best 16 of those at the start of the tournament. Are they in the top four teams in the world? I don't think so. Top eight? Maybe, so a place in the quarter-finals is what I expected and they exceeded my expectations. Now look at their actual results:

Tunisia 1-2 England. Tunisia ranked 21st. England's two goals scored from set pieces.
England 6-1 Panama. Panama ranked 55th. Among England's goals were a set-piece goal, two penalties and a lucky deflection.
England 0-1 Belgium. England's first highly-ranked opposition (3rd), against whom they lost and failed to score.
Columbia 1-1 England. Strong opposition again (ranked 16th), England can only draw by scoring another penalty. They got through on the lottery of penalties.
Sweden 0-2 England. Sweden ranked 24th. Another goal from a set piece.
Croatia 2-1 England. Croatia ranked 20th. England's goal came from a set-piece.

Looking rationally at that, it shows how kindly the tournament unfolded for England and how, when up against stronger sides, England depended upon penalties, free kicks and corners. England only scored four goals from open play in the six matches, three of those against one of the weakest teams in the tournament. Set-pieces are of course part of the game but teams like Belgium and Croatia are stronger in open play and that told over the two games against them. So I'm afraid I don't see England's progress as an indication of things to come, but more as a result of a kind draw and a strength in set-pieces. Will those circumstances arise at a future World Cup? Probably not, so England have a long way to go if they are to match what they've achieved this time around. Time is on their side because they are a young squad, but Southgate is going to have to watch very carefully to ensure that some of this squad don't believe their own hype and turn into the new "golden generation" that have underperformed in the last 20 years.



Yep..


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