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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 11:44 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 11, 2013 10:19 am
Posts: 22
12+ Over subscription appeal

This is a continuation really (last post page 13), our DD failed the 11+ (Well under 121), had an unsuccessful review and appeal, however she has now qualified through the 12+ (Well over 121) and has had a successful over subscription appeal :D

• 1. Local Authority area in which the appeal took place: AVDC

• 2. What you were appealing against? oversubscription only

• 3. Name of school you were appealing for: Royal Latin

• 4. Was this a school where the governors are the admission authority?
Yes academy,

• 5. Approx. date of appeal hearing: 1st / 8th July 2016

• 6. How many days in advance of the hearing, including weekends, did you receive the case papers? 6 ish

• 7. Where was the appeal held?
council offices

• 8a. Did your individual hearing start more or less on time? No

• 8b. If not, how late was it in starting? 1 hr 20mins

• 9. Do you know what sort of independent appeal panel you had? A panel appointed by the Local Authority? -

• 10. Who was on the panel?
2 x retired teachers and a lay person

• 11. Was there a group hearing? yes

• 12. Did the appeal follow the recommended order of business? Yes

• 14. What questions were you asked about your case? The chairman actually stated the facts, catchment school, sibling, distance, but also referred to the 'very high test score' which we thought strange as we didn’t think it was 'very' high and the fact we were only appealing for this school (again, not sure if this was relevant, but I do think the appeal panels are aware that parents are appealing to multiple schools and I do think this weakens your case, even if it shouldn’t!). We were asked what was the most important aspect of our case (social factor, educational or logistical) what our DD would consider the most important factor and also why she is attending an out of county fully comprehensive school when there was such a long journey time.

• 15. What were the panel like? Very friendly and genuinely interested

• 16. As far as you know, was the representative of the admission authority left alone with the panel at any point in time? No

• 17. Were you asked at the end of the hearing whether you had had sufficient time to state your case (or words to that effect)? Yes

• 18. Did you feel rushed? No

• 19. How long did the hearing last? no more than 20 mins
(excluding the group hearing, if there was one)

• 20. Were you told you could telephone for the decision? No

• 21. If you have the result, was your appeal successful? YES :D

• 22. How long did you have to wait for the decision, including weekends? 8 days following the last hearing, letters were posted 5 working days after the last hearing.

• 23. Success rates for appeals for this school. Other than personal experience I have no idea (this is the second 12+ oversubscription appeal we have won), it just depends how many spaces they have between 174 and 180, the other appellants / the strength of their case. I know of 5 successful cases over the past 3 years and all the children have lived locally. This year, there were 5 qualified cases and 5 unqualified and an in year application for year 7 (who was successful I believe ) I think you have to qualify outright to stand a chance of winning at over subscription or have a near miss score (119 /120) and very strong academic evidence as it is very difficult to explain why your child has failed for a second time.

• 24. Any other comments:

Firstly, what a difference a year makes!

Secondly this has to be led by your child, risking failure for the second time has to be their choice, it's not fair to set them up for a second fall (IMO) and it is a very long process from the time you register to getting the results / appeals etc.

Thirdly be realistic from the start, if the school is full / over its PAN at the start of year 7, you are very unlikely to gain a place at appeal, unless you have a strong oversubscription case. If the school have spaces, then yes go for it!

In our case we live within walking distance, have a sibling at the school, lots of friends from primary school attend and we have always believed she should have qualified at 11+, hence review, appeals etc. Also currently she endures almost 2 hours commute a day on a public bus (stops at every lamp post!) to attend our closest, fully comprehensive school (out of county, as our local high school, in our opinion is not up to scratch for the higher ability child). The higher the test score the better and a school report that backs this up with high level 6s+ across the majority of academic subjects at the end of year 7 I think goes down well. This is what I believe to be a very strong case, but a combination of two or more of these factors would be considered a strong case I believe.

If you have a strong case before you register for the 12+, then I would definitely recommend giving it a shot. If your child qualifies then don’t wait to get a place on the waiting list (as this will never happen!), always appeal.

If you have a week case and the school is full / over PAN, there really is no point putting your child through the test (in my opinion!).


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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 9:41 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:42 pm
Posts: 112
• 1. Local Authority area in which the appeal took place: KENT

• 2. What you were appealing against?
• a. non-qualification only?
• b. oversubscription only?
• c. both non-qualification and oversubscription?

NON-QUALIFICATION

• 3. Name of school you were appealing for:
OAKWOOD PARK


• 4. Was this a school where the governors are the admission authority?
(e.g. academy, foundation or voluntary aided)
ACADEMY

• 5. Approx. date of appeal hearing:
APRIL 2017

• 6. How many days in advance of the hearing, including weekends, did you receive the case papers?
ABOUT A MONTH BEFORE

• 7. Where was the appeal held?
(e.g. council offices)
AT THE SCHOOL

• 8a. Did your individual hearing start more or less on time?
YES, SLIGHTLY EARLY

• 8b. If not, how late was it in starting?

• 9. Do you know what sort of independent appeal panel you had? For example:
• a. A panel appointed by the Local Authority? - because it's dealing with a community school for which the LA is the admission authority.
• b. A panel appointed by the school? - because it's an academy, foundation or VA school where the governors are the admission authority.
• c. A Local Authority appointed panel acting at the request of the school? - because it's an academy, foundation or VA school where the governors are the admission authority, and they 'hired' a panel from the LA.
• d. Some other panel acting at the request of the school? - because it's an academy, foundation or VA school where the governors are the admission authority, and they 'hired' a panel not from the LA but from a commercial organisation, charity, or some other body.
UNSURE BUT WAS SENT THE NAMES IN THE LETTER

• 10. Who was on the panel?
(if you were told, e.g. a retired teacher, a businessman, and school governor - no names, please.)


• 11. Was there a group hearing?
(This is where stage 1 - the LA or school case - is presented to all the parents as a group)
N/A

• 12. Did the appeal follow the recommended order of business?
• a. the case for the admission authority;
• b. questioning by the appellants and panel
• c. the case for the appellants;
• d. questioning by the admission authority and panel;
• e. summing up by the admission authority; and
• f. summing up by the appellants.
YES

• 13a. Had your case already been considered by a Review Panel?
(sometimes applies to non-qualification)
A HEAD TEACHERS APPEAL HAD BEEN MADE

• 13b. If so, were you told that, because your case had already been reviewed, the only issue for the appeal panel was whether the review had been conducted properly?
N/A IN KENT

• 14. What questions were you asked about your case?
WHAT BOOKS MY CHILD READS, HEAVILY QUESTIONED BY THE CLERK ABOUT MY SON'S ABSENCE IN YEAR 5 AND SHE SAID SHE WAS SHOCKED AT THE SCHOOL FOR ALLOWING IN SUCH AN IMPORTANT TIME LEADING UP TO THE 11 PLUS.
ASKED IF MY OTHER CHILDREN SAT THE 11 PLUS. (ONE DID AND PASSED) WAS ASKED IF HE PASSED AND WHAT SCHOOL HE ATTENDS



• 15. What were the panel like?
(e.g. Were they friendly? polite? considerate?)
PANEL REALLY NICE...CLERK HORRIBLE

• 16. As far as you know, was the representative of the admission authority left alone with the panel at any point in time? (It's acceptable for the representative to be waiting outside the room, but he/she must not be already in the room with the panel when you arrive, or remain in the room with the panel when you leave.)
NO, HE LEFT WITH ME

• 17. Were you asked at the end of the hearing whether you had had sufficient time to state your case (or words to that effect)?
NO
• 18. Did you feel rushed?
SLIGHTLY

• 19. How long did the hearing last?
(excluding the group hearing, if there was one)
25 MINS

• 20. Were you told you could telephone for the decision?
(most authorities do not allow this, although some do)
WAS TOLD I WOULD HEAR MID MAY IN WRITING

• 21. If you have the result, was your appeal successful?
UNSUCCESSFUL

• 22. How long did you have to wait for the decision, including weekends?
ABOUT 3 WEEKS

• 23. Success rates for appeals for this school (if applicable, and if known):
• a. on this occasion

• b. in previous years UNSURE BUT I KNOW THERE WERE ABOUT 65 PLACES AVAILABLE THIS YEAR


• 24. Any other comments: I FEEL THE PANEL HAD MADE UP THEIR MINDS BEFORE WE GOT THERE. THE CLERK STATED HER OWN PERSONAL VIEWS TO TRY TO INFLUENCE THE PANEL. THE LETTER TELLING ME THE OUTCOME HAD INCORRECT INFORMATION IN AND ALSO SAID THEY THOUGHT THE SCHOOL WERE LYING ABOUT SATS PREDICTIONS SO WERE BASING DECISION ON KENT TEST SCORE. MAYBE THE CLERK SHOULD HAVE SPENT HER TIME MAKING ACCURATE NOTES RATHER THAN GRILLING ME?!!


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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 10:48 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 11, 2017 12:14 pm
Posts: 1
• 1. Local Authority area in which the appeal took place: Wirral

• 2. What you were appealing against? non-qualification only

• 3. Name of school you were appealing for: West Kirby Grammar


• 4. Was this a school where the governors are the admission authority? No

• 5. Approx. date of appeal hearing: May 2017

• 6. How many days in advance of the hearing, including weekends, did you receive the case papers? Around 25 days

• 7. Where was the appeal held? Town Hall

• 8a. Did your individual hearing start more or less on time? About 5-10 mins late

• 8b. If not, how late was it in starting? 5-10 mins

• 9. Do you know what sort of independent appeal panel you had? A panel appointed by the Local Authority.

• 10. Who was on the panel? Not known

• 11. Was there a group hearing? Yes

• 12. Did the appeal follow the recommended order of business? Yes

• 13a. Had your case already been considered by a Review Panel? No

• 14. What questions were you asked about your case?
Asked about DD medication.
How DD will cope with the ethos of the school.
DD results for SATS

• 15. What were the panel like? Yes it was very formal but they were polite.

• 16. As far as you know, was the representative of the admission authority left alone with the panel at any point in time? Yes

• 17. Were you asked at the end of the hearing whether you had had sufficient time to state your case (or words to that effect)? Yes

• 18. Did you feel rushed? No

• 19. How long did the hearing last? 15-20 mins.

• 20. Were you told you could telephone for the decision? Not allowed

• 21. If you have the result, was your appeal successful? Yes!!!!

• 22. How long did you have to wait for the decision, including weekends? 9 days

• 23. Success rates for appeals for this school (if applicable, and if known): Not known.


• 24. Any other comments:
The setting of the appeal was stressful but we felt that we were listened too. We didn't get asked a lot of questions but that could be down to the amount of evidence we sent in before the hearing. The waiting time could have been less we felt waiting that long was hard.




Thank you!


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:36 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 3:12 pm
Posts: 22
1. Local Authority area in which the appeal took place: Reading

• 2. What you were appealing against? Oversubscription only
• a. non-qualification only?
• b. oversubscription only?
• c. both non-qualification and oversubscription?

• 3. Name of school you were appealing for: Reading School


• 4. Was this a school where the governors are the admission authority? Academy
(e.g. academy, foundation or voluntary aided)

• 5. Approx. date of appeal hearing: May 2017

• 6. How many days in advance of the hearing, including weekends, did you receive the case papers? About 2 weeks

• 7. Where was the appeal held? Council offices
(e.g. council offices)

• 8a. Did your individual hearing start more or less on time? A little early as we were early and previous individual hearing must have been quick.

• 8b. If not, how late was it in starting?

• 9. Do you know what sort of independent appeal panel you had? For example:

• c. A Local Authority appointed panel acting at the request of the school? - because it's an academy, foundation or VA school where the governors are the admission authority, and they 'hired' a panel from the LA.


• 10. Who was on the panel? One former headteacher and 2 lay people (Chair was not an education expert).
(if you were told, e.g. a retired teacher, a businessman, and school governor - no names, please.)


• 11. Was there a group hearing? Yes
(This is where stage 1 - the LA or school case - is presented to all the parents as a group)

• 12. Did the appeal follow the recommended order of business? Yes
• a. the case for the admission authority;
• b. questioning by the appellants and panel
• c. the case for the appellants;
• d. questioning by the admission authority and panel;
• e. summing up by the admission authority; and
• f. summing up by the appellants.

• 13a. Had your case already been considered by a Review Panel? N/a
(sometimes applies to non-qualification)

• 13b. If so, were you told that, because your case had already been reviewed, the only issue for the appeal panel was whether the review had been conducted properly?

• 14. What questions were you asked about your case?
Lots of questions about extenuating circumstances.
Some discussion about situation regarding school offered.
We covered things pretty comprehensively, so there was a limited amount that they could ask. They certainly didn't ask anything particularly tricky.

• 15. What were the panel like? Polite, interested but not over-friendly.
(e.g. Were they friendly? polite? considerate?)

• 16. As far as you know, was the representative of the admission authority left alone with the panel at any point in time? (It's acceptable for the representative to be waiting outside the room, but he/she must not be already in the room with the panel when you arrive, or remain in the room with the panel when you leave.) Not at all - they were scrupulous about ensuring that the school's representative entered and left with us.

• 17. Were you asked at the end of the hearing whether you had had sufficient time to state your case (or words to that effect)? Yes we were.

• 18. Did you feel rushed? Yes - in the group hearing after about an hour, the Chair basically said "I think we've had enough questions now" when there were more than one of us with our hands raised. The Clerk ensured that we all got to ask what we wanted, but we felt that the Chair had had enough, so didn't spend too long. Similarly in the individual hearing, the Chair listened to us in relation to oversubscription and extenuating circumstances then basically started with his "have you anything else to say" spiel, and the Clerk interrupted to point out that we also had produced evidence about why we wanted that school and encouraged us to have our say. The Clerk was very good at ensuring that everyone was able to ask whatever questions that they wanted.

• 19. How long did the hearing last? Individual hearing - about 30-40 minutes.
(excluding the group hearing, if there was one)

• 20. Were you told you could telephone for the decision? No - but the Clerk did telephone to let us know the result.
(most authorities do not allow this, although some do)

• 21. If you have the result, was your appeal successful? Yes, we were very fortunate and won the appeal.

• 22. How long did you have to wait for the decision, including weekends? We were told it would be 5 school days, but the Clerk called us the next day (after they had heard all of the individual cases) to let us know that we'd won our appeal. She said that the school were keen to send us documents so she wanted us to hear the result quickly and from them officially before we received documents from the school.

• 23. Success rates for appeals for this school (if applicable, and if known):
• a. on this occasion - not known (there were about 11 or 12 appeals, based on attendance at the group stage)

• b. in previous years - zero last year (PAN increased last year), generally only 1 a year successful in the 3 or 4 years previously.


• 24. Any other comments:The guides on this forum were incredibly helpful. I initially submitted an outline of my case, then expanded on it once I'd gathered more evidence. I updated my bundle of evidence a couple of times as new documents came to light. I found the Clerks very helpful to deal with (all by email) and they were happy for me to add more documents before the deadline. We are still in shock that we succeeded as this is not a school which routinely has successful appeals. We certainly would have found it a lot harder without the advice contained in the guides, so enormous thanks to the forum members who have compiled them and provided such good assistance.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:06 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:53 am
Posts: 43
• 1. Local Authority area in which the appeal took place: KENT

• 2. What you were appealing against?
• a. non-qualification only?
• b. oversubscription only?
• c. both non-qualification and oversubscription?
C BOTH

• 3. Name of school you were appealing for: MAYFIELD GRAMMAR SCHOOL


• 4. Was this a school where the governors are the admission authority? ACADEMY
(e.g. academy, foundation or voluntary aided)

• 5. Approx. date of appeal hearing: JUNE 17

• 6. How many days in advance of the hearing, including weekends, did you receive the case papers? 3WEEKS

• 7. Where was the appeal held? COMMUNITY CENTRE
(e.g. council offices)

• 8a. Did your individual hearing start more or less on time? YES

• 8b. If not, how late was it in starting?

• 9. Do you know what sort of independent appeal panel you had? For example:
• a. A panel appointed by the Local Authority? - because it's dealing with a community school for which the LA is the admission authority.
• b. A panel appointed by the school? - because it's an academy, foundation or VA school where the governors are the admission authority.
• c. A Local Authority appointed panel acting at the request of the school? - because it's an academy, foundation or VA school where the governors are the admission authority, and they 'hired' a panel from the LA.
• d. Some other panel acting at the request of the school? - because it's an academy, foundation or VA school where the governors are the admission authority, and they 'hired' a panel not from the LA but from a commercial organisation, charity, or some other body.
B APPOINTED BY THE SCHOOL (SCHOOL REP COMMENTED THE PANEL WERE THE SAME PANEL AS LAST YEAR)

• 10. Who was on the panel? UNSURE
(if you were told, e.g. a retired teacher, a businessman, and school governor - no names, please.)


• 11. Was there a group hearing? N/A
(This is where stage 1 - the LA or school case - is presented to all the parents as a group)

• 12. Did the appeal follow the recommended order of business?
• a. the case for the admission authority;
• b. questioning by the appellants and panel
• c. the case for the appellants;
• d. questioning by the admission authority and panel;
• e. summing up by the admission authority; and
• f. summing up by the appellants.
YES

• 13a. Had your case already been considered by a Review Panel? N/A
(sometimes applies to non-qualification)

• 13b. If so, were you told that, because your case had already been reviewed, the only issue for the appeal panel was whether the review had been conducted properly?

• 14. What questions were you asked about your case?
WAS DD TUTORED
REASON FOR NOT PASSING AND HAD WE DONE ANYTHING TO ADDRESS THE ISSUE
HOW OUR PRIMARY SCHOOL HAD PREPARED KIDS FOR SATs
WAS SHE TUTORED
WHAT IS SHE CURRENTLY READING, AND WHAT HAS SHE READ RECENTLY (SPENT SOME TIME DISCUSSING THIS)



• 15. What were the panel like? 2 OUT OF THE 3 PUT US VERY MUCH AT EASE, THE 3RD(CHAIR) DIDN'T SAY VERY MUCH (JUST THE LEGAL STUFF)
(e.g. Were they friendly? polite? considerate?)

• 16. As far as you know, was the representative of the admission authority left alone with the panel at any point in time? (It's acceptable for the representative to be waiting outside the room, but he/she must not be already in the room with the panel when you arrive, or remain in the room with the panel when you leave.) SHE LEFT WITH THE COUPLE BEFORE US, ENTERED THE ROOM WITH US AND LEFT WITH US TO GREET THE NEXT COUPLE

• 17. Were you asked at the end of the hearing whether you had had sufficient time to state your case (or words to that effect)? YES

• 18. Did you feel rushed? EVER SO SLIGHTLY

• 19. How long did the hearing last? 25MINS
(excluding the group hearing, if there was one)

• 20. Were you told you could telephone for the decision? N/A
(most authorities do not allow this, although some do)

• 21. If you have the result, was your appeal successful? YES, YES, YES

• 22. How long did you have to wait for the decision, including weekends? 8 LONG DAYS

• 23. Success rates for appeals for this school (if applicable, and if known): SORRY, NOT KNOWN


• 24. Any other comments: I took all advice on board, my presentation was short and to the point. But I was shaking so much dh had to take over. But I had everything typed up for that reason as I knew I would be an emotional mess. I had a list of all possible questions, had them highlighted with answers to follow.
We had no mitigating circumstances and put it down to nerves on the day as it meant so much to dd to go to the same school as her sister. We pushed the sibling link and the impact having 2 kids at different schools would have on the family as allocated school had different holidays/inset days which would mean even more time off work.
They were impressed with the progress dd had made - no exaggerations in ht/ct letter of support as at the time of writing dd was just below greater depth for reading, but was expected to achieve greater depth in SATs. And they were impressed with her choice of reading, so much so that as we said our goodbyes .. a panel member handed me a post-it with some authors that dd might be interested in.
I have seen some comments that some clerks have been very vocal this year, but ours was lovely and sat there taking notes and never said a word while we were in the room.
We always told dd that she needed to show progress if we were to appeal, I know some kids loose confidence after a negative 11+ result so it was something for dd to aim for. When we found out the school was seriously over subscribed we were gutted and explained the situation to her. So as far as she was concerned, we didn't move on with the appeal.
There were a lot of happy tears last Monday and she's constantly saying thank you for going through with the appeal.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:10 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:42 pm
Posts: 112
relaxedMum77 wrote:
• 1. Local Authority area in which the appeal took place: KENT

• 2. What you were appealing against?
• a. non-qualification only?
• b. oversubscription only?
• c. both non-qualification and oversubscription?

School 1) NON-QUALIFICATION school 2) both

• 3. Name of school you were appealing for:
School 1)OAKWOOD PARK school 2) MGS


• 4. Was this a school where the governors are the admission authority?
(e.g. academy, foundation or voluntary aided)
1) ACADEMY 2) FOUNDATION

• 5. Approx. date of appeal hearing:
School 1) APRIL 2017 school 2) JUNE

• 6. How many days in advance of the hearing, including weekends, did you receive the case papers?
1) ABOUT A MONTH BEFORE 2) 2 weeks before

• 7. Where was the appeal held?
(e.g. council offices)
1) AT THE SCHOOL 2) Council offices

• 8a. Did your individual hearing start more or less on time?
1) YES, SLIGHTLY EARLY 2) late

• 8b. If not, how late was it in starting?
2) 30 mins... nobody told them I had arrived!!

• 9. Do you know what sort of independent appeal panel you had? For example:
• a. A panel appointed by the Local Authority? - because it's dealing with a community school for which the LA is the admission authority.
• b. A panel appointed by the school? - because it's an academy, foundation or VA school where the governors are the admission authority.
• c. A Local Authority appointed panel acting at the request of the school? - because it's an academy, foundation or VA school where the governors are the admission authority, and they 'hired' a panel from the LA.
• d. Some other panel acting at the request of the school? - because it's an academy, foundation or VA school where the governors are the admission authority, and they 'hired' a panel not from the LA but from a commercial organisation, charity, or some other body.
UNSURE BUT WAS SENT THE NAMES IN THE LETTER (both)

• 10. Who was on the panel?
(if you were told, e.g. a retired teacher, a businessman, and school governor - no names, please.)


• 11. Was there a group hearing?
(This is where stage 1 - the LA or school case - is presented to all the parents as a group)
N/A

• 12. Did the appeal follow the recommended order of business?
• a. the case for the admission authority;
• b. questioning by the appellants and panel
• c. the case for the appellants;
• d. questioning by the admission authority and panel;
• e. summing up by the admission authority; and
• f. summing up by the appellants.
YES (both)

• 13a. Had your case already been considered by a Review Panel?
(sometimes applies to non-qualification)
A HEAD TEACHERS APPEAL HAD BEEN MADE

• 13b. If so, were you told that, because your case had already been reviewed, the only issue for the appeal panel was whether the review had been conducted properly?
N/A IN KENT

• 14. What questions were you asked about your case?
1) WHAT BOOKS MY CHILD READS, HEAVILY QUESTIONED BY THE CLERK ABOUT MY SON'S ABSENCE IN YEAR 5 AND SHE SAID SHE WAS SHOCKED AT THE SCHOOL FOR ALLOWING IN SUCH AN IMPORTANT TIME LEADING UP TO THE 11 PLUS.
ASKED IF MY OTHER CHILDREN SAT THE 11 PLUS. (ONE DID AND PASSED) WAS ASKED IF HE PASSED AND WHAT SCHOOL HE ATTENDS 2) they asked how my child felt on the day: before and after. They talked about current levels (working at Greater Depth). Discussed Anxiety issues



• 15. What were the panel like?
(e.g. Were they friendly? polite? considerate?)
1) PANEL REALLY NICE...CLERK HORRIBLE 2) lovely panel, made me relaxed.. and clerk just took notes... did not get involved with questions like in appeal 1!!

• 16. As far as you know, was the representative of the admission authority left alone with the panel at any point in time? (It's acceptable for the representative to be waiting outside the room, but he/she must not be already in the room with the panel when you arrive, or remain in the room with the panel when you leave.)
NO, HE LEFT WITH ME (both)

• 17. Were you asked at the end of the hearing whether you had had sufficient time to state your case (or words to that effect)?
1) NO 2) yes
• 18. Did you feel rushed?
1) SLIGHTLY 2) no

• 19. How long did the hearing last?
(excluding the group hearing, if there was one)
1) 25 MINS 2) 50 minutes

• 20. Were you told you could telephone for the decision?
(most authorities do not allow this, although some do)
1) WAS TOLD I WOULD HEAR MID MAY IN WRITING 2) I was told I would hear the following week in writing

• 21. If you have the result, was your appeal successful?
1) UNSUCCESSFUL 2) yes... won the non-qualification but not the over-subscription but went on waiting list (was top of waiting list) - and got call the next day offering a place!!!!

• 22. How long did you have to wait for the decision, including weekends?
1) ABOUT 3 WEEKS 2) 7 days

• 23. Success rates for appeals for this school (if applicable, and if known):
• a. on this occasion

• b. in previous years 1) UNSURE BUT I KNOW THERE WERE ABOUT 65 PLACES AVAILABLE THIS YEAR 2 ) unsure: always heavily over/subscribed.. 11 places available on appeal this year


• 24. Any other comments: 1) I FEEL THE PANEL HAD MADE UP THEIR MINDS BEFORE WE GOT THERE. THE CLERK STATED HER OWN PERSONAL VIEWS TO TRY TO INFLUENCE THE PANEL. THE LETTER TELLING ME THE OUTCOME HAD INCORRECT INFORMATION IN AND ALSO SAID THEY THOUGHT THE SCHOOL WERE LYING ABOUT SATS PREDICTIONS SO WERE BASING DECISION ON KENT TEST SCORE. MAYBE THE CLERK SHOULD HAVE SPENT HER TIME MAKING ACCURATE NOTES RATHER THAN GRILLING ME?!!! 2) lovely panel on 2nd one... just shows the difference in panel members!!! !


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:07 am 
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Posts: 36
• 1. Local Authority area in which the appeal took place: GLOUCESTERSHIRE

• 2. What you were appealing against?
• b. oversubscription only

• 3. Name of school you were appealing for: HSFG

• 4. Was this a school where the governors are the admission authority?
(e.g. academy, foundation or voluntary aided) ACADEMY

• 5. Approx. date of appeal hearing: JUNE 2017

• 6. How many days in advance of the hearing, including weekends, did you receive the case papers? TWO WEEKS ?

• 7. Where was the appeal held? OFFICES NEAR SCHOOL BUT NOT AT THE SCHOOL
(e.g. council offices)

• 8a. Did your individual hearing start more or less on time? BIT LATE BUT CLERK CAME IN TO EXPLAIN RUNNING SLIGHTLY OVER.

• 8b. If not, how late was it in starting? 10 MINS

• 9. Do you know what sort of independent appeal panel you had? For example:
DON’T KNOW.

• 10. Who was on the panel?
(if you were told, e.g. a retired teacher, a businessman, and school governor - no names, please.) NOT SURE OF PROFESSIONS BUT STATED THEY HAD CHILDREN WHO HAVE BEEN OR ARE CURRENTLY IN GLOUCESTERSHIRE SCHOOL SYSTEM BUT NOT AT HSFG.

• 11. Was there a group hearing? NO
(This is where stage 1 - the LA or school case - is presented to all the parents as a group)

• 12. Did the appeal follow the recommended order of business? YES
• a. the case for the admission authority;
• b. questioning by the appellants and panel
• c. the case for the appellants;
• d. questioning by the admission authority and panel;
• e. summing up by the admission authority; and
• f. summing up by the appellants.

• 13a. Had your case already been considered by a Review Panel? NO
(sometimes applies to non-qualification)

• 13b. If so, were you told that, because your case had already been reviewed, the only issue for the appeal panel was whether the review had been conducted properly?

• 14. What questions were you asked about your case?
THEY ASKED IF WE HAD ANY MORE EVIDENCE OF RECENT TEST SCORES – MOCK SATS, ETC (I HAD). IF SHE WAS TUTORED AND WHAT WORK SHE HAD DONE AT HOME. HOW SHE WAS AFTER TEST. SCHOOL REPRESENTATIVES SAID WE HAD ANSWERED THE QUESTION THEY HAD WRITTEN DOWN AFTER READING OUR APPEAL BUT I DID THEN REITERATE MY ANSWER.

• 15. What were the panel like? VERY FRIENDLY, POLITE, CONSIDERATE – MADE US FEEL AT EASE. FELT LIKE THEY LISTENED – ASKED QUESTIONS BUT DIDN’T MAKE US FEEL LIKE WE WERE BEING INTEROGATED. SCHOOL REPRESENTATIVES WERE FRIENDLY & POLITE TOO. (e.g. Were they friendly? polite? considerate?)

• 16. As far as you know, was the representative of the admission authority left alone with the panel at any point in time? NO – WENT IN AND LEFT WITH US.

• 17. Were you asked at the end of the hearing whether you had had sufficient time to state your case (or words to that effect)? YES

• 18. Did you feel rushed? NO

• 19. How long did the hearing last? NOT SURE – MAYBE 20 TO 25 MINS.
(excluding the group hearing, if there was one)

• 20. Were you told you could telephone for the decision? NO – WERE TOLD WE WOULD HEAR IN WRITING IN 5 DAYS
(most authorities do not allow this, although some do)

• 21. If you have the result, was your appeal successful? YES

• 22. How long did you have to wait for the decision, including weekends? HEARD BY LETTER ON THE SATURDAY (APPEAL WAS ON THE WED).

• 23. Success rates for appeals for this school (if applicable, and if known): DON’T KNOW
• a. on this occasion – THE APPEALS WERE HELD OVER TWO DAYS – WE SAW AT LEAST FOUR PARENTS WHILST WE WERE THERE TO TRY AND GIVE YOU AN IDEA (ONE LEAVING AS WE ARRIVED, ONE IN APPEAL ROOM, ONE IN WAITING ROOM WITH US AND ANOTHER ARRIVING AS WE LEFT)
• b. in previous years

• 24. Any other comments:
WE REQUESTED AND MADE US OF THE INVIGILATORS LOG IN OUR SUBMITTED APPEAL.

MY HUSBAND AND I BOTH ATTENDED THE APPEAL HEARING. WE DRESSED SMARTLY. HE PRESENTED OUR CASE AND I ASKED QUESTIONS ABOUT THE SCHOOLS CASE. WE BOTH ANSWERED THE QUESTIONS.

ITS A LONG PROCESS AND YOU DO NEED TO PREPARE FOR IT BUT I WOULD SAY IF YOU FEEL YOU HAVE GENUINE GROUNDS FOR APPEAL THEN IT IS WORTH TRYING.

THANK YOU FOR ALL THE ADVICE ON THE FORUM – HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS BY PM.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:09 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:58 am
Posts: 55
• 1. Local Authority area in which the appeal took place:
Glos

• 2. What you were appealing against?
• a. non-qualification only?
• b. oversubscription only?
• c. both non-qualification and oversubscription?
Oversubscription only

• 3. Name of school you were appealing for:
SHS

• 4. Was this a school where the governors are the admission authority?
(e.g. academy, foundation or voluntary aided)

• 5. Approx. date of appeal hearing:
mid-May 2018

• 6. How many days in advance of the hearing, including weekends, did you receive the case papers?
About 10 days

• 7. Where was the appeal held?
(e.g. council offices)
Hotel conference room

• 8a. Did your individual hearing start more or less on time?
Yes

• 8b. If not, how late was it in starting?
About 10 mins

• 9. Do you know what sort of independent appeal panel you had? For example:
• a. A panel appointed by the Local Authority? - because it's dealing with a community school for which the LA is the admission authority.
• b. A panel appointed by the school? - because it's an academy, foundation or VA school where the governors are the admission authority.
• c. A Local Authority appointed panel acting at the request of the school? - because it's an academy, foundation or VA school where the governors are the admission authority, and they 'hired' a panel from the LA.
• d. Some other panel acting at the request of the school? - because it's an academy, foundation or VA school where the governors are the admission authority, and they 'hired' a panel not from the LA but from a commercial organisation, charity, or some other body.

Don't think I took it in at the time!

• 10. Who was on the panel?
(if you were told, e.g. a retired teacher, a businessman, and school governor - no names, please.)
All involved professionally with education in the county over a number of years.

• 11. Was there a group hearing?
(This is where stage 1 - the LA or school case - is presented to all the parents as a group)
No

• 12. Did the appeal follow the recommended order of business?
• a. the case for the admission authority;
• b. questioning by the appellants and panel
• c. the case for the appellants;
• d. questioning by the admission authority and panel;
• e. summing up by the admission authority; and
• f. summing up by the appellants.
Yes

• 13a. Had your case already been considered by a Review Panel?
(sometimes applies to non-qualification)
No

• 13b. If so, were you told that, because your case had already been reviewed, the only issue for the appeal panel was whether the review had been conducted properly?
No

• 14. What questions were you asked about your case?
Did the father support the appeal (he couldn't be present) - yes
Why didn't we go to a counsellor for DD's condition earlier
How was DD on the day of the test
Wouldn't DD get more support if she went to the same school as her older sister (older sister at different school)
Was there any disturbance noted in the room invigilator's report on the day of the test - no

• 15. What were the panel like?
(e.g. Were they friendly? polite? considerate?)
Polite and considerate, kind, quite direct though

• 16. As far as you know, was the representative of the admission authority left alone with the panel at any point in time? (It's acceptable for the representative to be waiting outside the room, but he/she must not be already in the room with the panel when you arrive, or remain in the room with the panel when you leave.)
No

• 17. Were you asked at the end of the hearing whether you had had sufficient time to state your case (or words to that effect)?
Yes

• 18. Did you feel rushed?
No

• 19. How long did the hearing last?
(excluding the group hearing, if there was one)
About 25 mins

• 20. Were you told you could telephone for the decision?
(most authorities do not allow this, although some do)
No

• 21. If you have the result, was your appeal successful?
Yes :)

• 22. How long did you have to wait for the decision, including weekends?
8 days

• 23. Success rates for appeals for this school (if applicable, and if known):
• a. on this occasion
Don't know - there were over 30 appeals this year though

• b. in previous years
About 7-9 appeals seem to be upheld each year (the school commented it can take up to 32 in each class)

• 24. Any other comments:
Thanks to advice on this forum, we pulled together as much evidence as we could of academic ability and extenuating circumstances, and why this school was the best fit. As I was on my own on the day I prepared a short speech on paper which I managed to read and get to the end of - surprisingly nerve-wracking, even though everyone was very nice. The panel asked probing questions so I was glad I'd had a chance to think about what they might ask, to be ready with the answers. However I'd forgotten to prep the summing-up, so had to think on my feet a bit - luckily it didn't matter in the end! Try to go with someone else if you can - the panel, clerk and school were as kind as they could be in the circumstances, but it was quite intense in the spotlight for even just 25 mins.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:50 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:32 am
Posts: 36
• 1. Local Authority area in which the appeal took place: [color=#00BF00]Bexley[/color]
• 2. What you were appealing against? • c. both non-qualification and oversubscription?
• 3. Name of school you were appealing for: Townley Grammar school
• 4. Was this a school where the governors are the admission authority?
academy, but appeals run by council
• 5. Approx. date of appeal hearing: 6/6/18
• 6. How many days in advance of the hearing, including weekends, did you receive the case papers? 12. This was the start of the bh and on the first working day I contacted the appeals team to ask if I could add 3 documents in relation to points about the schools case, and this was agreed. I did have to ask when I received a phone call 2 days before whether they had been circulated, and they hadn’t but were done so 1 day before hearing. I asked those present whether they had them, before I referred to them.
• 7. Where was the appeal held? council offices
• 8a. Did your individual hearing start more or less on time? Approx. 15 mins late
• 9. Do you know what sort of independent appeal panel you had? For example:
• c. A Local Authority appointed panel acting at the request of the school? - because it's an academy, foundation or VA school where the governors are the admission authority, and they 'hired' a panel from the LA. I think it was this but not really sure.
• 10. Who was on the panel?
1 lay person, and 2 other members. No background info on the panel was provided.
• 11. Was there a group hearing? No.
• 12. Did the appeal follow the recommended order of business?
• a. the case for the admission authority;
• b. questioning by the appellants and panel
• c. the case for the appellants;
• d. questioning by the admission authority and panel;
• e. summing up by the admission authority; and
• f. summing up by the appellants.
Slight variation at the end re summing up. After the cases and questioning they asked if it was ok for the clerk to read his notes, before summing up. He read summary points of appellants case and questions only, and effectively summed up for us, so that was the end of the hearing.

• 13a. Had your case already been considered by a Review Panel?
(sometimes applies to non-qualification). Yes.

• 13b. If so, were you told that, because your case had already been reviewed, the only issue for the appeal panel was whether the review had been conducted properly? No that doesn’t apply in our borough, and the school did not raise the review, but the panel did. The school confirmed that they did not know whether the exceptional circs were considered by the panel.

• 14. What questions were you asked about your case?
What school we had been allocated and whether we accepted it.
Whether we had any other children.
Where exactly our road was as they were not familiar with it.


• 15. What were the panel like? They were friendly

• 16. As far as you know, was the representative of the admission authority left alone with the panel at any point in time? (It's acceptable for the representative to be waiting outside the room, but he/she must not be already in the room with the panel when you arrive, or remain in the room with the panel when you leave.). No procedure was followed.

• 17. Were you asked at the end of the hearing whether you had had sufficient time to state your case (or words to that effect)? No, I don’t think so.

• 18. Did you feel rushed? No although the way the summing up and reading of the notes was dealt with suggested they wanted to make up time.
• 19. How long did the hearing last? Approx. 20 mins.

• 20. Were you told you could telephone for the decision? No
(most authorities do not allow this, although some do)

• 21. If you have the result, was your appeal successful? No

• 22. How long did you have to wait for the decision, including weekends? Telephone call 6 working days. Letter received 2 days later.

• 23. Success rates for appeals for this school (if applicable, and if known):
• a. on this occasion
46 appeals in total for this school. Normally around 20. Letter doesn’t advise if any were successful.
• b. in previous years
0 for 3 previous years.

• 24. Any other comments: The decision letter repeated the clerks summary, but added a summary of schools case and questions raised about it. Then stated that based on the information presented it did not feel the reasons given were sufficient to justify overturning the decision. No indication is given to what they thought of the academic evidence supplied. For any other Bexley appelants, I think it might have helped if I had seen the ht selection review case, so maybe ask your school to provide you with a copy. I’m left feeling that as the panel knew that my daughter had a place at her second choice school which was a kent grammar this harmed our chances, but Bexley appeals are notoriously hard. Thank you to all involved in this forum for providing so much helpful material and advice.

Also for any Townley appeals in the near future, the school accepted that the work done in 2016 providing new dining hall and computer suite had given a net gain for 2 classrooms, but argued that this had allowed the increase in pan in 2017/18 school year of 14, and there is no more room for expansion of pupil nos.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:53 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 10:11 pm
Posts: 34
. 1. Local Authority area in which the appeal took place. bexley
• 2. What you were appealing against? • c. both non-qualification and oversubscription?
• 3. Name of school you were appealing for Beths
• 4. Was this a school where the governors are the admission authority?
academy, but appeals run by council
• 5. Approx. date of appeal hearing: 15/6/18
• 6. How many days in advance of the hearing, including weekends, did you receive the case papers? 10 days
• 7. Where was the appeal held? Council offices
• 8a. Did your individual hearing start more or less on time? On time we were the first case that morning
• 9. Do you know what sort of independent appeal panel you had? For example:
• c. A Local Authority appointed panel acting at the request of the school? - local authority panel
• 10. Who was on the panel?
1 lay person, and 2 other members. No background info on the panel was provided.
• 11. Was there a group hearing?no . The headteacher was there to represent the school on the day.
• 12. Did the appeal follow the recommended order of business?
• a. the case for the admission authority;
• b. questioning by the appellants and panel
• c. the case for the appellants;
• d. questioning by the admission authority and panel;
• e. summing up by the admission authority; and
• f. summing up by the appellants
Yes and The clerk read from his notes as our summation ...

• 13a. Had your case already been considered by a Review Panel?
(sometimes applies to non-qualification). Yes

• 13b. If so, were you told that, because your case had already been reviewed, the only issue for the appeal panel was whether the review had been conducted properly? The panel were interested that we had had a review and asked whether we or head teacher instigated it . I had the result of the review with me and the clerk read it out to them . Our review letter had said if unsuccessful we still had the right of appeal.

• 14. What questions were you asked about your case?
Our case was mainly based about our sons Sen needs . The panel were interested in the support he gets and what we feel he needs. They asked about schools offered and rejected. What schools we had put on CAF and in what order.

• 15. What were the panel like? They were very nice and friendly . I felt they really listened and understood what we were saying.

• 16. As far as you know, was the representative of the admission authority left alone with the panel at any point in time? (It's acceptable for the representative to be waiting outside the room, but he/she must not be already in the room with the panel when you arrive, or remain in the room with the panel when you leave.). No procedure was followed.

• 17. Were you asked at the end of the hearing whether you had had sufficient time to state your case (or words to that effect)? Yes

• 18. Did you feel rushed? No . But came out thinking darn I should have said such and such a thing ... The benefit of hindsight.
• 19. How long did the hearing last? 35 mins

• 20. Were you told you could telephone for the decision? No
(most authorities do not allow this, although some do)

• 21. If you have the result, was your appeal successful? Yes

• 22. How long did you have to wait for the decision, including weekends? I got a call 3 days later, there was such a huge amount of appeals in Bexley it was easier for them to ring us and let us know. I am still waiting on the letter that was posted yesterday.

• 23. Success rates for appeals for this school (if applicable, and if known):
• a. on this occasion
• b. in previous years
3 successful this year not aware of any in most recent years.

• 24. Any other comments: think we were successful as very close to selective mark we were only 0.17 away ... Also last year 3 children didn't turn up on the first day and these places had to be reallocated ... Perhaps panel thinking 3 may not start this year also then school is back to pan .
Hope this helps anyone who in future has to go through an appeal .... You never know ....


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