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 Post subject: Re: Ratio problem
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 2:29 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:06 pm
Posts: 680
Guest55 wrote:
UK research is universally against it ... including groups specifically set up to look into this.

It causes SO many issues at Secondary with misconceptions.


Do you have any examples of what the most common misconceptions are which might help some of us understand? Perhaps many of us have been holding these misconceptions all these years and never realised it?

I notice that the issue of using algebra seems to come up an awful lot on this forum. Well meaning parents often provide an algebraic solution to a problem (with the correct answer) and you generally say its an inappropriate method to use. Is there something peculiar to algebra which makes it particularly dangerous for amateur parents to try and teach their DC's or is that rule something that you think should apply to all of maths (and even other subjects).

Would it be better if parents didn't try to teach their DC's reading and basic numeracy before starting primary school for example?


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 Post subject: Re: Ratio problem
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 2:40 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:21 pm
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Do you really think I would change anyone's mind even if I posted 50+ examples? We've already had one example on here to do with pupils and teachers along with people not defining variables and posters writing meaningless equations.

I'm not an expert on teaching reading so I won't comment on that. What do you mean by numeracy?


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 Post subject: Re: Ratio problem
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 3:10 pm 
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Guest55 wrote:
Do you really think I would change anyone's mind even if I posted 50+ examples? We've already had one example on here to do with pupils and teachers along with people not defining variables and posters writing meaningless equations.

I'm not an expert on teaching reading so I won't comment on that. What do you mean by numeracy?


I think it might help yes, if you provided a few relevant examples on why algebra shouldn't be used.

In the pupils and teachers example the problem was that some people were just getting the algebra plain wrong by writing t = 30p instead of p = 30t. And this would result in the wrong answer. But more often than not a parent will provide a perfectly correct algebraic solution to a problem that you will criticise as inappropriate even though it provides the correct answer.

I don't doubt that you know what you are talking about but it would be interesting for some of us to understand why algebra shouldn't be taught by parents other than just being told that we shouldn't use it because we're not teachers with PhD's in pedagogy (I had to look that word up :oops: ) and therefore don't properly understand it.

By basic numeracy for pre-schoolers I guess I mean things like counting, simple addition and subtraction etc. And then later on times tables etc. Should parents avoid teaching their children those kinds of things ahead of the NC or is it just algebra which is the issue?


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 Post subject: Re: Ratio problem
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:30 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:21 pm
Posts: 16131
Those 'mistakes' arise from misconceptions .. my very point

What do you mean by counting? The whole basis of understanding one-to-one correspondence is a PhD in itself!

Here are examples of good Early Years activities: https://nrich.maths.org/early-years

https://www.foundationyears.org.uk/wp-c ... tterns.pdf

I will ask moderators if further discussion is allowed.


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 Post subject: Re: Ratio problem
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:37 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:06 pm
Posts: 680
Guest55 wrote:
Those 'mistakes' arise from misconceptions .. my very point

What do you mean by counting? The whole basis of understanding one-to-one correspondence is a PhD in itself!



But then isn't it better to try and understand why those misconceptions might occur and therefore prevent them, rather than just avoiding using algebra altogether?

By counting I mean things like putting seven spoons in front of a young child and asking him/her to say how many spoons there are! Not PhD level number theory!


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 Post subject: Re: Ratio problem
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:47 pm 
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Posts: 16131
Understanding that 7 is '7' is not easy and there's much research on it.

I'd much rather approach learning to count from natural activities. What if you put another two down, does the child start from zero again or understand you can count on from 7?

https://everychildcounts.edgehill.ac.uk ... ers-count/

This is an intervention programme for children who have struggled with this so-called basic idea.


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 Post subject: Re: Ratio problem
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:53 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:46 am
Posts: 243
I did not need to study pedagogy for years to know teaching my child maths was not that difficult. I did it, just from the revision guides, work books and well chosen explanitory videos. Perhaps others could also.

IME it was not that difficult. There are many Fields medal winners who were taught maths at an incredibly young age. It did no harm to their mathematical ability. That is the problem with forums, you will get a variety of view, no matter how much you try to invalidate the ones that differ from yours.

Many bright children who could be taught by their parents to the same level as others taking the 11+ may be persuaded to miss out on this opportunity. The playing fields are already sloping enough without sapping the confidence of parents to do something about it.

I am happy to agree to disagee, but disagree I do.


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 Post subject: Re: Ratio problem
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:01 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:45 am
Posts: 209
OP, a new poster, has asked for help. Which hopefully they will feel they received. This thread has gone way off track. I hope the OP does not feel intimidated from posting again. More experienced posters might like to reflect on that next time, if there is one.


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