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 Post subject: Re: Ratio problem
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:22 am 
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MSD wrote:
I would assume OP welcomes all ideas here and glad to use the one that best suits their child and discard the rest.

No, it would be foolish to use a simultaneous equation approach that is not designed for this question. Actually writing out and defining the variables properly takes time, and as much time as the other less abstract approaches.

This sort of algebra is not the the Primary curriculum for many good pedagogical reasons - one of which is illustrated above.


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 Post subject: Re: Ratio problem
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:42 am 
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I suspect this will be a multiple choice test with candidates not expected to write any of the working out.

A child can easily work out in their head that if one cake and two biscuits provide 450 calories, two cakes and four biscuits will provide 900 calories and hence 1 extra biscuit provides 100 calories. So they don't necessarily need to know if they used Algebra in this particular instance.


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 Post subject: Re: Ratio problem
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:37 pm 
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Actually OP, where dd this question come from? It's unsuitable for an 11+ test.


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 Post subject: Re: Ratio problem
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:44 pm 
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Location: london
posted up thread
Erijkhan wrote:
...Yes, this is for 11+, from one of the grammar school paper.

_________________
mad?


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 Post subject: Re: Ratio problem
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:45 pm 
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Which one though? I will write to them ...


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 Post subject: Re: Ratio problem
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:55 pm 
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Posts: 680
Yes wrote:
It is t/p=30

Visualization helped us a lot. Algebra is too abstract for this age.
My son was struggling when he met such type of questions, I tried to explain him - it didn't work. But when I draw - he got it very quick.
Same approach I was using explaining him equations. He couldn't get the concept, but when I draw balancing scales and put apples and numbers on it, he got the idea.


No it is not! There are MORE PUPILS THAN TEACHERS. p > t. Therefore p/t = 30, not the other way round!


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 Post subject: Re: Ratio problem
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 2:33 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:26 pm
Posts: 111
OMG! This is what happened if you write on small phone screen and not checking back!

But the idea is that it should be a ratio.

Quote:
Which one though? I will write to them ...


This type of question was quite common on independent school papers, MGS definitely have them. Old Latymer papers had them. DAO have them.


Last edited by Yes on Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:00 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ratio problem
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 2:39 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:26 pm
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Quote:
Which one though? I will write to them ...


Yes, I double checked - DAO, paper 5 question 48. "Alice buys 3 swizzles and 2 twizzles for 30p. Owen buys 2 swizzles and 4 twizzles for 44p. How much is the twizzle?"

The same as question above, isn't it?

What about question like "there are sheep and chickens on the farm. They have together 35 heads and 94 feet. How many sheep are there?"

Is it part of year 5 curriculum? Are children taught how to solve this type of question at school?

Adult (if not an 11+ tutor :lol: ) would solve as simultaneous equations.


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 Post subject: Re: Ratio problem
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:47 pm 
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Posts: 680
Yes wrote:
Yes, I double checked - DAO, paper 5 question 48. "Alice buys 3 swizzles and 2 twizzles for 30p. Owen buys 2 swizzles and 4 twizzles for 44p. How much is the twizzle?"

The same as question above, isn't it?

What about question like "there are sheep and chickens on the farm. They have together 35 heads and 94 feet. How many sheep are there?"

Is it part of year 5 curriculum? Are children taught how to solve this type of question at school?

Adult (if not an 11+ tutor :lol: ) would solve as simultaneous equations.


I have to admit I would probably resort to the dreaded algebra. :twisted:

I'm sure that there is a superior method involving drawing a farmyard full of fluffy sheep and plump chickens but unfortunately my artistic talents are worse than my maths! :D


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 Post subject: Re: Ratio problem
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:04 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:33 pm
Posts: 1763
Guest55 wrote:
Actually OP, where dd this question come from? It's unsuitable for an 11+ test.

Manchester Grammar School.

https://nicholasdale.files.wordpress.co ... l-2018.pdf

Question 16.


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