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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:49 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:45 pm
Posts: 6
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I made spreadsheets of the results from several years of raw score threads, and have found no evidence of weighting in the standardisation process, apart from for age.


The data posted on the forums consists of the raw score, the standardised score and the age of the child in months.

Surely we would need to know how GL perform age standardisation...they would have data on all children taking the test, which would allow them to standardise age to the day, not the month, in most cases.

GL and KCC are massively protective of their data, but they will send the number of correct questions that a child received, with no indication of which questions the child got right. Except in the case of children getting all the questions correct, we have no way of comparing correctly any of the data that is available on this forum, aside from the obvious one that most of the data available is for children passing well.

I'm not trying to be annoying, but I think a lot of this posting of raw scores and data as though it is revealing the method that GL and KCC use is bunk, and is not actually helpful.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:16 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:34 am
Posts: 11
Sorry - a bit of a rant here from a lurker. The "unfair" complaint really got to me. The point of standardisation/age weighting is to make things more fair, not less fair. This pointless unpicking of data achieves nothing.

The whole system is in many ways unfair. Let me list the ways:

Children in boroughs with no grammars have to get significantly higher scores than children a few yards away because they're "out of county". Or, children in our borough are denied places by children in neighbouring boroughs. Delete as applicable.

State schools won't prepare children for the 11+ while private schools will

Heavily tutored children take up places in grammars that are unsuited to them and struggle to keep up, keeping out children who would have flourished in that environment.

Children scraping a grammar place could in many cases have had an education and school life more suited to them if they'd gone to the comprehensive down the road. Why oh why couldn't they have done worse?

We all have bad days - just hope your child doesn't have one on the day of the 11+

I could go on. Given that this is an 11+ forum, we've all chosen to participate in a system that's inherently unfair. I don't personally have a problem with that - life IS unfair and the sooner we realise that, the better. Schools, LAs and parents have to find a way of minimising the unfairness within the confines of the system as it stands. Standardisation is part of that process.

I feel very priviliged/lucky to live in (or indeed being able to have deliberately moved to) a borough with one outstanding grammar that we think our son would flourish in and make the most of. We know boys there and he'd really fit in. We hope very much that he gets a place in March. If he doesn't, I will NOT be complaining that it's not fair (only one boys' grammar for the borough, they don't age weight, IT'S NOT FAIR!) - I already know it's not fair whatever happens.

Rant over!


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:49 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:51 pm
Posts: 20
Broomleigh - agree with you on almost every point. Just one correction - private schools are not allowed to prepare children for the Kent test either. It is not for me to comment whether some defy the rules and do so anyway as I do not have any evidence of this, but my kid went to local private school and I can tell you that they do absolutely nothing to prepare the kids, outside of the usual year 5 curriculum. To the point where the school will not even discuss the 11+. It is made very clear that it is a parental decision to take it and prepare for it outside of school.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:53 am 
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Thanks countrylifeKat. I don't know the regulations, but certainly in Bromley the private pupils are significantly more likely to have seen reasoning questions within school than the state pupils are - they need it for independent 11/13+ and common entrance. There may not be specific tutoring to one particular test, but it must help.

Our local small private school, which we considered, specifically says on its website that they test twice a year "from the age of seven years in English, mathematics, verbal and non-verbal reasoning". Obviously the whole point of reasoning questions is that you shouldn't be able to teach kids how to do them, but I fear for the pupils who go into an exam hall and haven't seen anything like them before!


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:07 am 
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Broomleigh. Good points well made.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 2:09 pm 
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Sam very happy with scores


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 2:45 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:51 pm
Posts: 36
While some might not find this thread useful, I have found previous years’ raw score threads to be invaluable.

I have not posted my twins’ scores before as they are so similar to others already posted that I didn’t feel they would add value. Now I will post them to try to get the thread ‘back on track’!

Age 10 years 11 months

Twin 1
English 24 138
Maths 20 128
Reasoning 68 140
Overall 406

Twin 2
English 24 138
Maths 20 128
Reasoning 67 138
Overall 404


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:15 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:56 am
Posts: 379
mum24 wrote:
While some might not find this thread useful, I have found previous years’ raw score threads to be invaluable.

I have not posted my twins’ scores before as they are so similar to others already posted that I didn’t feel they would add value. Now I will post them to try to get the thread ‘back on track’!

Age 10 years 11 months

Twin 1
English 24 138
Maths 20 128
Reasoning 68 140
Overall 406

Twin 2
English 24 138
Maths 20 128
Reasoning 67 138
Overall 404



Ha, that's brilliant. Are they identical twins? Must be a big relief they both pulled it off.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:24 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:51 pm
Posts: 36
Such a relief! I’ve been so stressed about them both needing to get similar results - looks like I needn’t have worried at all!!


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:36 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 12, 2019 8:37 pm
Posts: 18
mum24 - I cannot imagine your stress levels with twins!!! So amazing that the scores were pretty much the same. Wow!


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