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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:45 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 9:38 pm
Posts: 57
OOC parents have the right to choose for their kid and it’s not child abuse to send a child to grammar school.

I think the demonising of OOC parents should stop


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:12 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:59 pm
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Sigh. That is not what I said, Victor. In certain circumstances the insane travel can amount to child abuse - where parents want their kids to do commutes they wouldn’t do themselves.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:38 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:52 pm
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kenyancowgirl wrote:
I think many of the comments are to dissuade what can amount to child abuse, where parents think nothing of requiring a just 11 year old to travel up to 2 hours one way, daily for 7 years, for a school place. A school place where they cannot possibly contribute to the full life of the school because they live "irrespective of distance" and their parents don't fully think through "their situation"....

It is one reason that GS heads implore parents to consider that just because you can apply doesn't mean you should apply, and is the reason that catchments or priority areas in the main have been brought in. It is also one of the major factors in children dropping out of school places in y7/8/9 as they suddenly realise they cannot handle the workload and the travel.

There are a few parents who do move "properly" for a school place to minimise travel time and allow their child to fully participate in the school the parent has targetted, but many more actually just attempt to game the system, with no thought for the local child who loses out on a place as they do it. I think these are who many experienced forumites are trying to put off....

And, yes, most do rightly think that children who live in the area, contribute to the local community, whose families have possibly lived there since the children were born, should get priority over those who fly in from, in some cases, other countries or the other end of this country - no real surprise there! Ths is not trying to create more chances for IC it is just being sympathetic and aware of their situation.


Your comment really confirms what I am saying. ‘Contribute to the full life of the school’ what does that even mean?

‘No thought for the local child who misses out’ maybe the local child can attend the local comprehensives, imagine if they local comps were to close because they had no takers? Loss of jobs and incomes for the locals.

‘Fly in from another country’ just to attend a grammar school? Wow! That’s a new one on me, but hey! We learn everyday.


If you are being sympathetic to the plight of the local child, maybe encourage them to work harder, 303 is easy to achieve when you think about it and while you are there, spare a thought for the OOC child that worked hard to achieve a really high score but can’t get in because the place has been given to a local child who might in year 7,8 or 9 drop out due to not coping with the standard of work expected.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:57 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:25 pm
Posts: 25
Sarmum wrote:
Thanks for your post, it hints that more OOC places may be available this year, which might help some anxious parents.

By the way, the schools that the OOC children come from don’t push them to take the 11 plus either, it’s the parents who do it. Even in this part, schools/teachers don’t praise them for passing the 11 plus.

As long as your son has scored comfortably, I don’t understand why you struggle with OOC. It is important to understand the effect of demographic and population changes since your time of education. When I visited the schools last year during open days and review days, I could see all boys working together and had a sense of belonging. This is what pushes them to achieve the best results.

I hope your comments don’t put off some OOC parents thinking their child might not fit in. Every child who has worked hard IC or OOC deserves a place.


I am OOC parent who is trying for her DS to get the admission in WHSB .. I have read few comments from the members and it seems like a cold war between... IC n OOC... I am truly getting worried when IC parents pass some harsh comments... Both the kids IC or OOC works equally hard and as well as the parents, even OOC kids work harder to meet the benchmarks.. So then why members differentiate... There are so many boroughs, who doesn’t have any Grammar school, so in those cases parents don’t have rights to think about their DC’s better future ???? And if they are doing it , what is wrong in it ???

And if everyone will start moving in the IC just for the school, how populated the area will become and to move it is not just simple task for some families.

When I visited the WHSB during the open evening, I was just delighted and happy to see all the school kids who give tours, get along so well... and it was really beautiful to watch that kids don’t think whether the they are IC or OOC...

Second thing , to meet kids during weekends or holidays, 1hr is not a very long journey. They can still get socialised and explore another part...

Thank you Sarum , atleast someone trying to understand the other side.

I do believe that IC children should have priority but I request parents not to feed these thoughts to kids to make friends on the basis of IC or OOC.

My intentions are not to judge or hurt someone’s feelings but as a parent of OOC child, I am worried.
Thank you


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:00 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:59 pm
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Chelsmuna if the local child achieves the qualifying score then they are perfectly capable of coping with the work. They are also far less likely to be exhausted due to over long travel times to and from school. Most schools - Grammars included - run an awful lot of after school activities/clubs/sports/drama etc and expect children to take part - meaning the day is even longer or that a child living far away cannot fully embrace school life.

And yes, frightening that people apply from other countries just because the rules allow them to apply...

Momneedshelp the vast majority of the country don’t have grammar schools and children around the country are doing ok - they go to their local schools and those with parental support often exceed expectations and/or do brilliantly. A grammar school is not a prerequisite for success.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:10 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:25 pm
Posts: 25
kenyancowgirl wrote:
Chelsmuna if the local child achieves the qualifying score then they are perfectly capable of coping with the work. They are also far less likely to be exhausted due to over long travel times to and from school. Most schools - Grammars included - run an awful lot of after school activities/clubs/sports/drama etc and expect children to take part - meaning the day is even longer or that a child living far away cannot fully embrace school life.

And yes, frightening that people apply from other countries just because the rules allow them to apply...

Momneedshelp the vast majority of the country don’t have grammar schools and children around the country are doing ok - they go to their local schools and those with parental support often exceed expectations and/or do brilliantly. A grammar school is not a prerequisite for success.



Of course I am agreeing that grammar schools are not the only option. But when you have a choice , everyone try and choose the best for their DC. That’s what everyone is doing.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:33 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:29 pm
Posts: 5
kenyancowgirl wrote:
I think many of the comments are to dissuade what can amount to child abuse, where parents think nothing of requiring a just 11 year old to travel up to 2 hours one way, daily for 7 years, for a school place. A school place where they cannot possibly contribute to the full life of the school because they live "irrespective of distance" and their parents don't fully think through "their situation"....

It is one reason that GS heads implore parents to consider that just because you can apply doesn't mean you should apply, and is the reason that catchments or priority areas in the main have been brought in. It is also one of the major factors in children dropping out of school places in y7/8/9 as they suddenly realise they cannot handle the workload and the travel.

There are a few parents who do move "properly" for a school place to minimise travel time and allow their child to fully participate in the school the parent has targetted, but many more actually just attempt to game the system, with no thought for the local child who loses out on a place as they do it. I think these are who many experienced forumites are trying to put off....

And, yes, most do rightly think that children who live in the area, contribute to the local community, whose families have possibly lived there since the children were born, should get priority over those who fly in from, in some cases, other countries or the other end of this country - no real surprise there! Ths is not trying to create more chances for IC it is just being sympathetic and aware of their situation.


Thank you for summarising my thoughts much more succinctly than I ever could!!


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:09 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:13 am
Posts: 16
My DD first choice was CCHS with Westcliff being second. We are iC for cchs but ooc for westcliff. She is in top tier fir cchs and has a score of 395+ for Westcliff. However, we are thinking of moving to southend and not sure it will be possible for her to get to cchs from Southend. Please, is it possible to make westcliff first choice? If not, can my DD be on waiting list for westcliff? Thank you.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 11:10 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:41 am
Posts: 9702
Location: Essex
Essexdaddy wrote:
My DD first choice was CCHS with Westcliff being second. We are iC for cchs but ooc for westcliff. She is in top tier fir cchs and has a score of 395+ for Westcliff. However, we are thinking of moving to southend and not sure it will be possible for her to get to cchs from Southend. Please, is it possible to make westcliff first choice? If not, can my DD be on waiting list for westcliff? Thank you.


Whatever you do now in terms of changing your preferences, you will render your application late and it will not be dealt with until after all on time applications have been allocated. From your current CAF submission, if you put CCHS first and your DD qualifies for a place there, that is the school she will be allocated and she will not be on the waiting list for any of her lower preferences.

Best to hang on until you know where you will be living on March 2nd and follow the relevant local authority's rules for changing preferences. Although... I suppose that if you deliberately scuppered your on time application now, you would almost certainly get your nearest undersubscribed school on March 2nd (usually Hylands, bless it, if you are in Chelmsford) and then you would automatically be on the waiting list for all your higher preferences and with that score, pretty likely top of the waiting list for WHSG...

_________________
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.Groucho Marx


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:24 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:13 am
Posts: 16
Thank you Toadmum. I didn't realise I could change my submission. I will check it out, but it seems risky.


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