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 Post subject: Re: Age Standardisation
PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:30 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:59 am
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I think it would be good to have some oversight on what they are doing. The School Adjudicator’s report didn’t fill you with confidence.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... h_2018.pdf


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 Post subject: Re: Age Standardisation
PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:30 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:28 pm
Posts: 42
The standardisation has been done on a straight line basis. The extra applied to each day younger than 1st September is what is required to minimise any statistical variance between birth month.

It's not perfect but it will have been the closest it can be based on the variables used - paper taken and date of birth.


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 Post subject: Re: Age Standardisation
PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:32 am 
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I can't open the attachment, but if that is what they have done, then that is unusual and I would be interested in their rationale...!


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 Post subject: Re: Age Standardisation
PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:50 am 
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kenyancowgirl wrote:
I can't open the attachment, but if that is what they have done, then that is unusual and I would be interested in their rationale...!


It's in the age standardisation report on the case website.


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 Post subject: Re: Age Standardisation
PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:14 am 
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kenyancowgirl wrote:
I can't open the attachment, but if that is what they have done, then that is unusual and I would be interested in their rationale...!



I have tried attaching again:

https://www.csse.org.uk/images/simplefi ... -10-18.pdf


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 Post subject: Re: Age Standardisation
PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:26 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 3:01 pm
Posts: 987
kenyancowgirl wrote:
BucksBornNBred wrote:
kenyancowgirl wrote:
Age standardisation compares children in one birth month with those in another, and evens out any significant variations. This can mean that older children might get “less” points or “more” points, depending on that variation.

To those of you saying that every child has had the same education, so age standardisation shouldn’t happen, remember that a child born in September of one year has exactly a year more of “living” than a child born the following August. And in that living, they aren’t just shoved in a box, they are assimilating their surroundings, absorbing words and vocabulary etc.

I know that is the argument, KCG, (and I accept it is what it is) but surely it is the education that counts most. To judge on age is IMO bizarre* as a July born child may have older siblings (outgoing parents??) that make them more precocious whilst an only child born in September may not develop in the same way. That is all I am saying. There has to be some way to try and equal things out, but the broad brush they use does disadvantage some children as not every square child fits that round hole.

* (probably the wrong word so please replace with another one that is more suitable)


OK, I will try and make age standardisation simple:

Everyone born in one month, say Sept, has their scores calculated.
Everyone born in another month, say July, has their scores calculated.
(And every month in between.)
The Sept scores are compared with the July scores. Any significant differences are ironed out.

This means, if the JUly year happen to be a really precocious bunch of children - for example, those with older siblings and outgoing paretns - and, as a group score significantly MORE than the Sept (older) children, then the July score effectively gets standardised "down" - or vice versa, if the Sept children score significantly more than the July ones. So it takes account of any perceived "age" differences which, in an 11+ year where children are generally 10, is more significant than at GCSE year or comparing 40 years olds. Age differences become almost negligible as you get older, but they are "very" significant when you are younger. To be blunt, BBB, the very example you give above is exactly why age standardisation is a good thing.

Please stop thinking that "education" ONLY happens in school - which is what several of you have said above (except I notice you have then gone in to edit your comments to try and make them seem more reasonable....!!) School education is FORMAL education, but children are educated from the second they are born - some more successfully than others - and it is this education that age standardisation seeks to rectify.

There is a misassumption by many parents that older children "always" score more and therefore get penalised by age standardisation, but this is not always the case. Age standardisation is very fair.


I do understand how it works *, KCG. I am just saying that age is not necessarily the same as maturity. It is a blunt, but necessary, tool otherwise every child would need a psychological assessment before entering... ummmh, I am sure teachers have plenty of time on their hands to do that :lol:

* ETA I didn't at first because some of the advice online was misleading.


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 Post subject: Re: Age Standardisation
PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 12:31 pm 
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Posts: 32
My DD is a September child and missed out with a score of 335.50 (CCHSG) Although I understand the reasoning behind age standardisation in terms of it being the easiest way to differentiate, I do not think it’s the only factor so in essence it does make it unfair.


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 Post subject: Re: Age Standardisation
PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 1:58 pm 
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kenyancowgirl wrote:
There is a misassumption by many parents that older children "always" score more and therefore get penalised by age standardisation, but this is not always the case. Age standardisation is very fair.

bucksbornnbred wrote:
I didn't [understand age standardisation] at first because some of the advice online was misleading.

Actually, I think the misunderstanding comes from information on this website https://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/advice/standardised-scores-an-explanation The example table certainly makes it look like older children are disadvantaged.


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 Post subject: Re: Age Standardisation
PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:21 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:36 pm
Posts: 62
@ kenyancowgirl - are you a statistician? What is your experience of age-standardisation?

W.r.t. the manner in which CSSE have implemented it on this occasion, if the rationale for age-standardisation is that summer-born children have less ‘living experience’ than winter-born children, then when age-standardisation is applied, younger children will ALWAYS be awarded more ‘age-standardisation points’ than their elders within the cohort.


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 Post subject: Re: Age Standardisation
PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:36 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:23 pm
Posts: 6
Hi everyone,
I am another one of those people who hover around this forum out of pure interest. I haven't had to "deal with" offspring actually taking the exam for a few years now but I have a couple of comments to add to the forum at the moment.
I haven't read, but I definitely will read, all the information on the rationale of age standardisation. From a general point of view, I suppose there must be some logic to it or they would not have decided to do it.
That all said, very generally, I would agree that it is unfair to make no score amendment for having a year less of schooling than someone else taking the exam or, equally the other way round. That said, I rather suspect that the standardisation requirement might partly depend on the parents/care givers of that child.
Some people might be highly educated themselves can afford the best schools and/or tutoring or be able to offer substantial academic support to their child but others are not in the same position. Thus there will be children born in September without these advantages who may well be outscored by a child born in March who does have them, etc. Perhaps it is unfortunate that we cannot standardise against advantage rather than age, but that is only my view.
I would consider myself to be of reasonable academic ability but without high income/etc, thus I was able to assist DC when their time came to prepare for the exam. DC has a July birthday and easily got an OOC place at one of the Essex grammars, followed by very decent exam results and a first class degree. If there had been standardisation they may well have made one of the Chelmsford schools but if I had not been academically inclined they may well, despite their potential, have not got a grammar place at all.
Just my thoughts.


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