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 Post subject: Re: Age Standardisation
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:49 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:41 am
Posts: 9966
Location: Essex
DSDSDD wrote:
I used the numbers and assumptions above for simplicity, but is my interpretation correct? I.e. 15 students from each monthly cohort would be offered a place if all entrants applied for the school.

If yes, then how is this method of age-standardisation justified if it is only applied intra-month, BUT not across the year as a whole (as implemented by CSSE for 2019 entry)?

For example: you could have a child born 31Jan who was ranked 16th in his/her monthly cohort (hence not offered a place), but a child born 1Feb who ranked 15th in his/her monthly cohort (offered a place) that scored ‘materially’ lower.


No, that wouldn't be the way it was worked out. If you standardise the overall cohort in e.g. 12 birth-month sub cohorts, you would still end up with a range of scores within each that generally looks quite similar, e.g.between about 200 and about 420. Then all those groups would be merged back together and you would still have a range (in that example) from c.200 to c.420. It would probably (should) work out that the proportion from each birth month 'passing' will be more or less the same as their representation in the cohort overall.

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 Post subject: Re: Age Standardisation
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:14 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:36 pm
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If the standardisation only occurs within each monthly cohort before being remerged with the rest of the year, how does it then cater for the perceived disadvantage that August-born children have when compared with September-born?


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 Post subject: Re: Age Standardisation
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:41 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:41 am
Posts: 9966
Location: Essex
DSDSDD wrote:
If the standardisation only occurs within each monthly cohort before being remerged with the rest of the year, how does it then cater for the perceived disadvantage that August-born children have when compared with September-born?


Not that this is how the CSSE didi it anyway, but...

For each grouping, you have a range of scores, calculated from the mean raw scores and standard deviations from that group. So the mean for the September birthdays for English, say, may be 32/60 and the standard deviation 8.33 and for the August birthdays, 31/60 and 10.125. For each, you will end up with a normal distribution of standardised scores. For example, you may have a score of 345 in each range; that score is still '345' and will in both cases represent a position on the curve above a certain percentage of candidates and below a certain (much smaller) percentage. And the same for all the other months. '345' as a standardised score is '345', although the underlying raw scores may be different in each of the sub-cohorts.

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 Post subject: Re: Age Standardisation
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:34 am 
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Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:33 am
Posts: 153
I thought I would resurrect this rather than start anew! The means seem low this year - particularly English?

If I use my DD's scores from last year (39 English and 26 Maths) she would have scored a standardised score of 335.6 this year compared to 312.7 last year including age adjustment (April baby).

It would seem a minimum scores this year to achieve 303 would be*:

Month: English/Maths
September: 29/28
October: 28/28
November: 28/28
December: 28/27
January: 28/27 or 27/28
February: 28/27 or 27/28
March: 27/27
April: 27/27
May: 27/26
June: 27/26 or 26/27
July: 27/26 or 26/27
August: 26/26

*assumes born last day of month

I can't help but wonder if the Southend grammars may see a dip in results in 5-6 years with cohorts that pre-standardisation wouldn't have qualified.


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 Post subject: Re: Age Standardisation
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:07 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:16 am
Posts: 32
Hey :-)

The mean score for math this year is slightly higher but English lower?

This isn’t a reflection of how ‘smart’ the cohort are in comparison as they are different tests - it’s possible this years English test was harder than last years and that’s why the average score is lower.


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 Post subject: Re: Age Standardisation
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:25 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:36 pm
Posts: 99
Leighmum2019 wrote:

I can't help but wonder if the Southend grammars may see a dip in results in 5-6 years with cohorts that pre-standardisation wouldn't have qualified.


Putting aside the debate as to whether there is a relationship between 11+ scores and GSCE results, and whilst I am inclined to agree with you, I would suggest that the same inference would also apply to all the other CSSE schools, not just the Southend grammars.


Last edited by DSDSDD on Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Age Standardisation
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:25 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:41 am
Posts: 27
Leighmum2019 wrote:
I thought I would resurrect this rather than start anew! The means seem low this year - particularly English?

If I use my DD's scores from last year (39 English and 26 Maths) she would have scored a standardised score of 335.6 this year compared to 312.7 last year including age adjustment (April baby).

It would seem a minimum scores this year to achieve 303 would be*:

Month: English/Maths
September: 29/28
October: 28/28
November: 28/28
December: 28/27
January: 28/27 or 27/28
February: 28/27 or 27/28
March: 27/27
April: 27/27
May: 27/26
June: 27/26 or 26/27
July: 27/26 or 26/27
August: 26/26

*assumes born last day of month

I can't help but wonder if the Southend grammars may see a dip in results in 5-6 years with cohorts that pre-standardisation wouldn't have qualified.


I think applying last year standardising formula to this year score may not be correct, as level of difficulty of papers might be different?


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 Post subject: Re: Age Standardisation
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:36 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:33 am
Posts: 153
newblossom wrote:
Leighmum2019 wrote:

If I use my DD's scores from last year (39 English and 26 Maths) she would have scored a standardised score of 335.6 this year compared to 312.7 last year including age adjustment (April baby).


I think applying last year standardising formula to this year score may not be correct, as level of difficulty of papers might be different?


It was just an illustration 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Age Standardisation
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:39 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:33 am
Posts: 153
DSDSDD wrote:
Leighmum2019 wrote:

I can't help but wonder if the Southend grammars may see a dip in results in 5-6 years with cohorts that pre-standardisation wouldn't have qualified.


Putting aside the debate as to whether there is a relationship between 11+ scores and GSCE results, and whilst I am inclined to agree with you, I would suggest that the same inference would also apply to all the other CSSE schools, not just the Southend grammars.


It's more that more local kids are getting into the Southend grammars, possibly aided by age standardisation - with the other grammars the qualifying score seems to be getting higher whilst 303 hasn't moved just more kids are reaching the threshold.


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 Post subject: Re: Age Standardisation
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 1:47 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:52 pm
Posts: 103
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