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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 2:19 pm 
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Dear Zoe

I too think Susan Daughtrey is excellent at explaining the techniques, but only for children taking the 11 plus in standard form and from areas that use this amount of types.

There is a 'knack' to answering multiple choice none of which is explained in her books eg

1] There are 5 types which can be answered directly from the answer sheet
2] There are a number of questions particularly the codes where you only need part of the answer
3] One question requires a letter from the alphabet- standard form would require the child to go thru the whole alphabet in multiple choice they give you 5 letters

The list could go on, so I wont bore you. If you are in an area that uses multiple choice then you need a publisher that will explain all the benefits and traps. I only wish Susan Daughtrey would revise her techniques because as you said she is very good at explaining to parents.

Also some of her types which are the same as Bucks are laid out and approached in a slightly different way.

Her Bright Sparks series is an excellent resource for Bucks and I will and do recommend them. She does cross refer from this series to her technique books but this is not always helpful, standard form versus multiple choice again.

Re teaching your child irrelevant material, I see this from two sides a parent and a tutor.

As a parent I can see your point of view, mine is just different. Once I knew the 21 types I kept to it. I didn't see the point of teaching material that my children would never see again [at least at secondary school they wouldn't] preferred to spend the extra time on other things, walks , chilling out, talking about life and the world. As adults I am sure we can agree to disagree

As a tutor I have to go down the line where if I tutor other than for Bucks then I am not doing my job properly. I keep to the 21 types plus copious amounts of vocab work together with quick recall of the four maths operations.

Patricia


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 3:13 am 
Dear Patricia

Many thanks for your feedback. Preparing my son for the exams has been a learning experience for us both which, on a couple of occasions, came close to being all-consuming (not healthy!). So, I agree totally about cutting out superfluous stuff (if/when it can be identified) and maintaining a healthy work/family life balance.

One of the problems for us has been that, of the two schools we have applied for, both make mention of using their "own reasoning papers", but neither offer any past papers for guidance. Given this, my son and I opted to learn every type of question so that he encounters no surprises on examination day.

And I've learned something from you tonight; whereas my lad has become accustomed to both standard and multiple choice formats for English, Maths and NVR, I wrongly understood that VR existed in standard format only. So, it looks like I will need to get my hands on the MC variety rather sharpish!

Many thanks again and best wishes,

Zoe.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:15 am 
Dear Zoe/ Patricia,

Sorry to cut into your thread of conversation, but I would just like to mention that having personally tutored my three children through 11 plus one thing that is clear about verbal reasoning is that the strength of your child's vocabulary far out weighs the techniques alone.

I used the Susan's books and for my first two the SD Bright Sparks papers were not available, but were so this year for my third. I would recommend these books whole heartedly however I think it is putting the cart before the horse if you do not have the vocabularly.

What I am trying to say is that a child with strong vocaularly and modest intelligence will do better than one with strong techniques and modest vocabularly. If I were to guesstimate on my experience I would say that 80% or more of the verbal reasoning papers are entirely reliant on the vocabularly. I therefore think that one critical aspect of preparation is to have your child read extensively in the year ahead of the exams.

Glad to get that off my chest, now I can enjoy my morning coffee.

P.S. Patricia with your experience and detailed intimate knowledge you should be writing your own papers.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 4:08 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 4:07 pm
Posts: 2719
Zoe

Think we now have an understanding!

Dear Dr Know

Totally agree re vocab, codes are easily mastered, maths [verbal reasoning ones] relatively easy, leaves that vocab.

I introduce up to 10 words a week. The child makes up flash cards, the word is written in bold on the front on the reverse..[ for their homework]

Meaning

Sentence using the word

A singular word/s meaning the same

A singular word/s meaning the opposite

Eventually they use them to play games with their parents/siblings [younger siblings therefore have a headstart when it is their turn to come to me! Also encourage them to use the words at school, not surprising their vocab does increase.

Also insist that child reads out aloud to parent at least three times a week making notes of unknown vocab. [make up more flash cards] So many parents, including myself, tend to let their children read to themselves, but what happens when the child comes across a word they don't know? Do they look it up? Do they get out of bed, go downstairs and ask? Of course they don', because they can still get the 'meaning' of the sentence/paragraph, so whats the point?

Patricia


Last edited by patricia on Fri Mar 31, 2006 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: HP sauce?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 4:31 pm 
Saw HP too on Saturday, I used to enjoy it, now find it all too much of the same thing. Enjoyed reading the books to my children, until I discovered that it the same old formula: Typically HP has a rough time with the adopted family, escapes to the RW's family and then off to Hogwarts school. HG is a bit of a know-it-all busy-body, but somehow appears to be the best time manager of the three. ****** is usually defeated in three terms in time of a Hogwarts year so HP to return home to the adopted home in time for the summer holiday and all the children appear to pass all their examinations while having a lot on their minds. One wonders how/why the very able Prof D. has nothing better to do than be sidelined until HP does the deeds. Have not figured out Prof Snape, though it begs the question how all these Profs can do miracle charms yet not know when someone has tresspassed or been through their things (i.e. out foxed by the simplest of devices).

During the film on Saturday found myself reeling back to the book and finding that large chunks are missed out - notheless if you went in with an open mind it was a good night out, especially a treat for my youngest who completed his 11-plus last Saturday.

Patricia, Your notes show that you have a gifted understanding of the inner workings of a child's mind and just writing about that, quite apart from verbal reasoning questions/styles would sell well and be much appreciated by parents like me.


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 Post subject: Flash Card Words
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 1:57 pm 
Can anyone advise me where I can find appropriate word lists that I can put on flash cards over the coming year to improve my son's vocabulary/word understanding for the 11 plus in Bucks.

Thanks

SkyLark


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 Post subject: Word List
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 2:06 pm 
Bucks 11plus verbal reasoning exams are set by NFER on behalf of the local education authority.

Therefore an excellent place to start is the NFER word list created by the Tutors in the free to download section of this website.

http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/pdf/11 ... d-list.pdf


Hope this helps and good luck.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:19 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 4:07 pm
Posts: 2719
Dear Skylark

Flash card words

This website, under 11 plus advice - English words supplement.

Revised First Aid in English. list of similar words, many are 'old fashioned' but so are the words in the 11+

Should be enough to be getting on with.

Patricia


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:14 pm 
How do flash cards work? Are these simply a set of huge cards with one word per card or lots per card? How does one use these in their revision?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 4:13 pm 
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Guest 666

RE - flash cards look at my previous posting on this thread.

Patricia


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