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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:02 pm 
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Question: Any other examples of odd age standardisation scores and distributions?

I've found an old(?) CEM Powerpoint about MidYIS which states "95% of scores lie between 70 and 130...No ceiling at 130+ or floor at 70-". Most of the graphs etc. used show a range 50-150 which presumably covers all but the extreme cases.

http://www.cemcentre.org/Documents/MidY ... MidYIS.ppt

So if the KE test follows a similar pattern, most of what has been said in the past is correct, but the 70-140 cut-offs would not apply.


Mike


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:13 pm 
Question: Does KE Camp Hill Boys get the brightest children because it's hardest to get into?

Another fallacy is that all the really bright boys end up at Camp Hill because that needs the highest score.

Well, it only needs the highest score because it has only 93 places. The first 93 entering Five Ways, Aston, Handsworth and Camp Hill may also have scored 347; these schools then go on to take many more children, lowering their lowest score for entry. I hope that makes sense.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:59 pm 
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Question: Is is a fallacy is that all the really bright boys end up at Camp Hill because that needs the highest score

Perfectly true, in fact the very highest scores would probably be as likely to be found at FW or Aston as at CHB; it depends on what went on the form and in what order.

Mike


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:17 pm 
Question: Surely the standardization and and scores are done separately for the boys and girls and do not truly represent what the actual raw marks were. (quizzer)

No, it would be illegal to discriminate between boys and girls in this way, especially since both sexes are competing for places at Five Ways. There could be no possible justification for standardising for gender (unlike for age in years and months). I don't know what the relative figures are for boys and girls attempting the test (KenR will probably know this) but I think the results indicate that any boys scoring between say 317 and 328 (or whatever the cut off score for Aston was last year) are not getting KE places whereas girls with these scores are.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 8:28 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 5:12 pm
Posts: 1348
Location: Birmingham
Question: All Girls and Boys Age Standardised separately?

Boys and girls are definitely NOT Standardised separately in the KE Exam. I happen to know (from the Warwickshire Research & Trial) that Durham CEM spend a lot of time trying to make the various sections of the test gender neutral - the bespoke tests are engineered by CEM to achieve this.

Interestingly they conducted a purely digital test as part of the same Alcester Grammar trial which resulted in boys scoring about 10 marks higher in the test (about 1/2 a Std Deviation) - significant difference. Presumably the Boys & Computer Games Effect!

I recall the 5-Ways head saying, in one of the year-7 induction meetings, that there just happened to be approximately a 50:50 split between boys and girls passing the test. As was mentioned earlier, the reason for the different pass rates for the various schools is purely down to popularity of a particular school and the total numbers of places available respectively for Girls and Boys. (more girls places available at single sex girls schools)

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I did have a full copy of the 2006 Age Standardised tables at one time but unfortunately I gave this to the head at my son's old junior school otherwise I could have confirmed the maximum scores in that year.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:07 pm 
Question: Any thoughts on the differences between Boys and Girls places?

In my area of Birmingham, there is definitely more urgency from parents to achieve a King Edward for boys than girls because the boys' choices are not nearly as good as the girls. I have now had several sets of boy/girl siblings and 'the boat is pushed out further' for the boys than the girls. The whole process is taken much more seriously by parents of sons, and often by the sons themselves. This, in turn, has pushed their last score up higher, obliging them to take it even more seriously if they want a place.

This is a relatively recent phenomenon. Four or so years ago, while the score of Camp Hill Boys was still high, the score for Five Ways and Camp Hill was on par, Aston about 6 lower and just a couple of points away from Handsworth Girls.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 11:19 pm 
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Question: What are the cut-off marks for other grammer schools in Birmingham, such as QM, BV etc. (kevin8)


BV pass mark this year was 327, waiting list cut-off 318 - unusually high, as per the KEs this year.

Don't know about QM it wasn't on out list

Mike


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:27 pm 
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Question: Can you give some facts about how many children put a particular KE school down as their 1st choice
Item of mild interest: at the induction evening this week the head said there were 753 boys with Camp Hill as first choice for 2009 entry, which is bang in line with lowest pass mark of 351 for 93 places.

Mike


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:48 pm 
Question: I am trying to determine the preference order for the LA form.

My son will take the 11+ in a few weeks and he likes Camp Hill and Five Ways. Looking at the scores, Camp Hill is the hardest. However, if we put Camp Hill 1st, 5-ways 2nd and he doesn't get the Camp Hill score, but meets 5-ways, will he be offered 5-ways?
What I am trying to confirm is whether we would be penalised if we put 5 ways second? (rits)



No, you won't and the school will never know you didn't put them first.

If he was on a last score tie with someone, then distance from school would then be the factor.


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