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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:33 am 
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From what I can remember from different threads I think the information was that Five Ways was the school where the least number of OOC places would be available and the head at Camp Hill Girls had said that she was definitely expecting there to be OOC places available. This seems to be confirmed by the figures released which implies that the King Edwards powers that be have done their homework with the number crunching. And no huge increase in PP applications by the looks of it either.

It’s very difficult to predict exactly what will happen apart from knowing there will be a lot of movement elsewhere with the independent schools and taking into account there are two girls independent and one boys, plus the effect of the Sutton and Walsall schools on the north KE schools. As a parent with a child with the priority score in the FW catchment can’t pretend I’m not a bit anxious - have started plotting maps with circles on to see how many are likely to live closer/further away than us :lol: Think we’ll be okay and with just over 5 months to go hoping I don’t completely lose the plot in the meantime!!


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:56 am 
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Nella wrote:
MSD wrote:

Aston - 140(PAN) - 150(qualified catchment PP and non-PP)
Camp Hill Boys 120(PAN) - 162(qualified catchment PP and non-PP)
Camp Hill Girls 150(PAN) - 114(qualified catchment PP and non-PP)
Five Ways 180(PAN) - 216(qualified catchment PP and non-PP)
Handsworth Girls 160(PAN) - 200(qualified catchment PP and non-PP)
Handsworth Boys 150(PAN) - 128(qualified catchment PP and non-PP)
.

The figures above don’t allow for the extra places that are ‘reserved’ for pupil premium children (25% of places). According to the published figures, KEFW has 22 ‘in catchment’ pp children who achieved the qualifying score. If the pp numbers remain unchanged they will have places for 23 OOC pp children in order to achieve the 25%. This has a knock on effect in the non pp places. So that equates to 194 in catchment non pp children competing (on distance) for 135 non pp places =59 children over the PAN.

So if you have a high scoring girl and live in the outer parts of the KEFW catchment it would make sense to apply to CHGs / Sutton girls. And for high scoring boys Aston and Bishop Vesey would be a good bet.


I see. I would have thought they will give left over reserved PP places to qualifying catchment children first and then look at OOC. Interesting rule if true!


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 9:25 am 
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MSD wrote:
Nella wrote:
MSD wrote:

Aston - 140(PAN) - 150(qualified catchment PP and non-PP)
Camp Hill Boys 120(PAN) - 162(qualified catchment PP and non-PP)
Camp Hill Girls 150(PAN) - 114(qualified catchment PP and non-PP)
Five Ways 180(PAN) - 216(qualified catchment PP and non-PP)
Handsworth Girls 160(PAN) - 200(qualified catchment PP and non-PP)
Handsworth Boys 150(PAN) - 128(qualified catchment PP and non-PP)
.

The figures above don’t allow for the extra places that are ‘reserved’ for pupil premium children (25% of places). According to the published figures, KEFW has 22 ‘in catchment’ pp children who achieved the qualifying score. If the pp numbers remain unchanged they will have places for 23 OOC pp children in order to achieve the 25%. This has a knock on effect in the non pp places. So that equates to 194 in catchment non pp children competing (on distance) for 135 non pp places =59 children over the PAN.

So if you have a high scoring girl and live in the outer parts of the KEFW catchment it would make sense to apply to CHGs / Sutton girls. And for high scoring boys Aston and Bishop Vesey would be a good bet.


I see. I would have thought they will give left over reserved PP places to qualifying catchment children first and then look at OOC. Interesting rule if true!


MSD, the PP 25% is a minimum, so if they do not fill 25% PP from catchment then they will look ooc for PP (based on distance I think) until the minimum of 25% is reached. In catchment all PP meeting 205 get a place. Hope that helps, the whole thing is confusing.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 9:27 am 
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MSD- it’s category 3. If fewer than 25% of places are offered to in catchment pp children then the remaining places are offered to OOC pp children. OOC pp children are ranked by test score. If scores are equal then it’s sibling followed by distance. When 25% of places are filled (45 for KEFW) then no more pp places are offered.

This 25% of places is a minimum for ‘in catchment’ pp children. So a school such as CHB will probably have over the 25%. It currently has 46% in catchment pp children (but this percentage is likely to reduce with an extra form and children that don’t qualify for PP).

No one will know what will happen until March so list schools in true order of preference!


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 9:30 am 
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Shabs34 wrote:
MSD, the PP 25% is a minimum, so if they do not fill 25% PP from catchment then they will look ooc for PP (based on distance I think) until the minimum of 25% is reached. In catchment all PP meeting 205 get a place. Hope that helps, the whole thing is confusing.


Ok. So they will look outside catchment for PP only. That will make sense!


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 9:33 am 
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Nella wrote:
MSD- it’s category 3. If fewer than 25% of places are offered to in catchment pp children then the remaining places are offered to OOC pp children. OOC pp children are ranked by test score. If scores are equal then it’s sibling followed by distance. When 25% of places are filled (45 for KEFW) then no more pp places are offered.

This 25% of places is a minimum for ‘in catchment’ pp children. So a school such as CHB will probably have over the 25%. It currently has 46% in catchment pp children (but this percentage is likely to reduce with an extra form and children that don’t qualify for PP).

No one will know what will happen until March so list schools in true order of preference!


Looking at CHB catchment area 46% PP was expected. I wonder what long term impact this will have on CHB school ranking?


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:21 am 
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MSD wrote:
Nella wrote:
MSD- it’s category 3. If fewer than 25% of places are offered to in catchment pp children then the remaining places are offered to OOC pp children. OOC pp children are ranked by test score. If scores are equal then it’s sibling followed by distance. When 25% of places are filled (45 for KEFW) then no more pp places are offered.

This 25% of places is a minimum for ‘in catchment’ pp children. So a school such as CHB will probably have over the 25%. It currently has 46% in catchment pp children (but this percentage is likely to reduce with an extra form and children that don’t qualify for PP).

No one will know what will happen until March so list schools in true order of preference!


Looking at CHB catchment area 46% PP was expected. I wonder what long term impact this will have on CHB school ranking?


You ate assuming that the DC qualifying for a place only because they meet the PP threshold score, rather than the higher threshold, have demonstrated all they are capable of, rather than having hitherto untapped potential? (The latter generally being one of the reasons for dropping the threshold for disadvantaged groups for entry to academically selective schools).

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:32 am 
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Tonythetiger - make sure you put some other grammar schools on the CAF as back up, assuming Five Ways is already your first choice.

Good luck to your DC. March does indeed feel ages away, but hopefully once the last minute CAF dilemmas are over we will all be able to forget about it for a while.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:34 am 
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Of course! Genuinely disadvantaged PP will have a lot of untapped potential. One wonders out of these 46% of qualifying PP how many had the same amount of professional tutoring as non-PP. And as a result did they displace many other PPs offering higher ‘untapped potential’


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:17 am 
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Exactly!!! We never applied for PP but we could not afford professional tutors. If my daughter would be PP with her score on 208 for Birmingham and 330 Walsall she would definitely get a place.
It is a bit unfair especially when you think how many kids are registered as PP but still had a lessons.
Now I regret We never tried for PP.
......


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